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Old 06-10-2014, 02:59 PM   #1
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Concrete Colorant / Staining Advice Help


Hey Guys....

I have a very good friend that will be pouring a very long concrete driveway for their new build residence...( ie, a surface finish with it's consequent maintence issues probably is not a desirable alternative, unless you know of a surface finish more durable than I know of).

As to exposure characteristics, this is located in Park City Utah.

This is rather a very high-end home.... all cost factors are open to consideration.

What are your professional recommendations and advice, as to both product and/or technique, to achieve as dark and black as possible driveway appearance.????

TIA

Best

Peter

(I'm thinking in terms of a concrete colorant, but open to all ideas/recommendations).

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Old 06-10-2014, 07:26 PM   #2
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Concrete Colorant / Staining Advice Help


Want it black then do a asphalt paved driveway.

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Old 06-10-2014, 07:52 PM   #3
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Want it black then do a asphalt paved driveway.
Thanks Joe.... Never thought of that...
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:09 PM   #4
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Concrete Colorant / Staining Advice Help


Some tentative research from Foundation Armour....:

Foundation Armor website technician recommends:




"if the concrete is bare and readily accepts moisture, you could acid stain the concrete. That will turn the concrete black but unless you coated the surface the top of the concrete would still be susceptible to abrasion. In my opinion, acid staining is the best way to color concrete.

1:07 pm with our acid, you can also dilute it 1 to 1 with water but if you need it very dark, full concentrate is ideal. we recommend neutralizing the concrete with ammonia and water or baking soda and water after acid staining to protect the concrete"

(Sounds like a surface and high maintenance product to me... which everyone has?)

We also have a lead that SW has a stain....I suspect it's nothing more than Behr's Concrete Stain that is basically a surface paint.


Anybody have experience with either of these products or alternative products/techniques/ideas to investigate.??



(My friend, I'm sure, appreciates greatly Joe's insight and experience, but would probably note that his objective is "concrete as dark and as black AS POSSIBLE". (Ya know... I kinda expected that response...just not from Joe..))


Best and TIA


Peter
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:43 PM   #5
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We supplied the black concrete for the steam heated sidewalks around Sears Tower, and as I recall the mix design called for carbon black as the colorant, and the requirements for the sidewalks were what your friend wants, deep black with no variation so a lot of care in mixing and also finishing is required.
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:02 PM   #6
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IMPO, acid staining in a true black is not easily atainable, and as you noted, it's only topical. It takes several applications to get anywhere near a true "black".

If it were me, I'd use an intregal concrete colorant (mixed into the load" on the entire driveway and use a decent solvent-based color enhancement sealer to brick as much color out as possible. Obviously, the sealer will need to be re-coated every few years to keep the deepest black color.........
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:10 PM   #7
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Canary and Jomama... Thank you.... Good leads /ideas

Canary, I haven't seen the Sears Tower.... any leads as to how to determine that exact mix... did it come out pretty dark

Jo... any special brand colorant and subsequest solvent based sealer you would recommend/prefer?

TIA

Best
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:17 PM   #8
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We use what ever color our ready-mix supplier is in bed with, and currently, its' Butterfield color. Actually, a pretty darn good company IMO.

As for sealer, you can't go wrong with Euco "Everclear" or "Super Diamond Clear" IMPO.........
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:36 PM   #9
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Acid staining, while a true stain, is topical and must be sealed to preserve it...not practical on a long driveway, as sealing adds it's own maintenance issues. Carbon black is not a good dye for concrete, the small size of the particles means that they will wash out of the pores over time. Super iron black or a liquid black like hydro is your best bet, and if money is no object and you want it really black specify white cement.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:07 PM   #10
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It certainly seems like Canary has some good experience with what they did at the Sears Tower! That's also in a cold climate, much like the driveway you are talking about so the exposure should be about the same. I'm sure you could probably find some pictures online if you looked around some. Putting carbon black or some other colorant like it into the mix is going to be a much better alternative than anything you do afterwards such as stains etc.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:47 AM   #11
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Concrete Colorant / Staining Advice Help


we only did 1 & that was 40yrs ago - owner's idea was the conc would heat faster in the winter - he was right,,, iirc, we used carbon black & the batch plant had a fit but they washed out ok,,, still looks decent altho uv-resistant colors are ONLY uv-resistant, NOT uv-proof

you can't acid-stain black in 1 application as it needs several to attain an acceptable uniform color,,, no 2 trucks will have the same color conc & that affects final appearance when stained,,, flyash vs no flyash is another,,, IF the d/w's on a slope, streaks are very possible,,, big d/w, you'll have batch strength variations,,, yada, yada, yada

but its all possible

irc

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Old 06-11-2014, 11:07 AM   #12
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Concrete Colorant / Staining Advice Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
Canary and Jomama... Thank you.... Good leads /ideas

Canary, I haven't seen the Sears Tower.... any leads as to how to determine that exact mix... did it come out pretty dark

Jo... any special brand colorant and subsequest solvent based sealer you would recommend/prefer?

TIA

Best



The mix design was supplied to us by a concrete testing lab, and yes the sidewalks came out a really dark black, in fact they are still that way 41 years later as I was up there last year.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:12 PM   #13
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Concrete Colorant / Staining Advice Help


Sounds like adding the carbon black is a great idea if you want a black concrete driveway especially in a cold climate. Having it heat up faster in the sun would certainly help melt the snow off too!
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:36 PM   #14
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I will say it one more time: Carbon black is not the best black colorant. Use a ferrous oxide pigment, either liquid or powder. It is colorfast.
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:29 PM   #15
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I will say it one more time: Carbon black is not the best black colorant. Use a ferrous oxide pigment, either liquid or powder. It is colorfast.
And are those pigments generally and comercially available.?


Tscar.... Thank you....Do you think the concrte mix it self affects the color at all.

Best

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