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-   -   concrete against brick (http://www.diychatroom.com/f105/concrete-against-brick-143161/)

baldydan 05-08-2012 10:30 PM

concrete against brick
 
Can a concrete patio be poured above existing foundation against the wall brick?

joecaption 05-08-2012 10:32 PM

Not enough info, no pictures of what you have now, hard to say.

baldydan 05-08-2012 10:37 PM

concrete against brick
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 917539)
Not enough info, no pictures of what you have now, hard to say.

The existing patio is 8 ft from house and I want to marry it up but the level line is above house foundation so I need to go against brick for drainage pitch..Will this be a problem in the future?

concretemasonry 05-09-2012 02:16 PM

baldydan -

Where are you located and what is the climate?

In a cold/cool climate the patio can move and there should be some sort of a "soft joint" between the concrete and more permanent house.

If there is a possibility of water (rising or blown) getting to the brick, you could create an interior water/moisture/mold problem because of the bad elevation comparison. Your patio may be too high for site and drainage.

Dick

TRUEPRO 05-09-2012 09:00 PM

You will be fine pouring concrete up to the brick. Some contractors will put expansion joint material against the brick because the concrete will crack away from the brick. The expansion joint material "EJM" will eventually deteriorate and leave you a bigger gap then what the concrete settling away from the brick will. Pour the crete right up against the brick. If you concerned about moisture, wait until you see the separation of the crete from the brick (which might take some time) and fill the void with elastomeric caulk. This will keep the water out and allow for any more expansion.

Good luck.

jomama45 05-09-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRUEPRO (Post 918168)
You will be fine pouring concrete up to the brick. Some contractors will put expansion joint material against the brick because the concrete will crack away from the brick. The expansion joint material "EJM" will eventually deteriorate and leave you a bigger gap then what the concrete settling away from the brick will. Pour the crete right up against the brick. If you concerned about moisture, wait until you see the separation of the crete from the brick (which might take some time) and fill the void with elastomeric caulk. This will keep the water out and allow for any more expansion.

Good luck.

Absolutely terrible advise, regardless of where you live, you need an expansion joint between the two.

Should you have concern pouring concrete above the foundation line? Yes, the wood skirt, mud sill and floor joists are far more likely to rot out much faster. That being said, there's not always a feasible option.

TRUEPRO 05-10-2012 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomama45 (Post 918278)
Absolutely terrible advise, regardless of where you live, you need an expansion joint between the two.

Should you have concern pouring concrete above the foundation line? Yes, the wood skirt, mud sill and floor joists are far more likely to rot out much faster. That being said, there's not always a feasible option.

Obviously you base your advice on opinion and not fact or experience. I have done it both ways for years and using expansion joint material is a waste. Looks like you use google to answer these questions. I feel sorry for DIYers that listen to you.

jomama45 05-10-2012 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRUEPRO (Post 918559)
Obviously you base your advice on opinion and not fact or experience. I have done it both ways for years and using expansion joint material is a waste. Looks like you use google to answer these questions. I feel sorry for DIYers that listen to you.

I could take the simple adolescent approach and personally attack you, but to be honest, I am indeed a "True Pro", and won't stoop to your level.

You'll be hard pressed to find an advantage to not installing expansion material, other than laziness & a few cents per foot, or a true professional in the field that wouldn't suggest it's use.

stuart45 05-10-2012 03:32 PM

A method we often use when a path or patio is less than 6 inches below the Damp proof course is to lay a line of thin kerb stones about 6 inches away from the wall and take the concrete up to them.
The other side next to the wall has gravel at a lower level than the DPC.

concretemasonry 05-10-2012 03:33 PM

I have never seen "EJM" (a lumped together group of various materials with different properties) in a professional specification for a project, but the specific acceptable acceptable materials are specified and the installation methods are called out for good reason.

Caulk or unknown elastomerics are just a goop and short term solutions that may work for a season or two until the effects or ineffectiveness of the plan and INTSALLATION is discovered TOO LATE. The wait for the crack, caulk and then the wait for the failure is a typical and costly approach in the end despite the cheap concept in the beginning.

You know there will be a crack, so plan on it and do a proper installation at the beginning. The same thing applies to the joint between the old patio and the new slab that was ignored.

Dick

slc200 06-15-2014 01:06 PM

Concrete poured up to retaining wall
 
Concretemasonry: you stated that proper installing is key, but didn't really say what that was. I am very curious. We want to do something similar. We are putting in an interlocking stone retaining wall then pouring a concrete pad up to it and I've had some tell me to just pour right up against it and others say use an expansion joint. Please, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks!

Suzanne

stadry 06-15-2014 01:36 PM

let's all calm down a scosh :yes: neither aci nor any specifier would ask that conc be placed in contact w/any structure,,, heck, we even use exp jnt mtl between columns bases & conc floors,,, why ? because they're different & have different objectives :thumbsup:

as the conc cures ( hydrates ), it will shrink a bit & there'll be a little space 'tween the conc & exp jnt/structure,,, however, when the conc gets hot in the summer, it expands ( hy-skoul fiziks ),, in short, pay attn to cidk & jo IF you want the job done right :thumbup:

same w/the stone wall 'cept ' sill seal ' might be a better alternative as its more flexible,,, dick & jo would've said the same but they had to take their wife & kids out for father's day :laughing: ( ' proper installation ' includes an acceptable joint pattern )

ircSuzanne[/QUOTE]

Robpo 06-15-2014 01:58 PM

I would use expansion if the concrete was between the wall and an unmovable object so it has room to expand and contract. If the concrete has a foundation I would call that an unmovable object and put expansion joint. My 2₵.

Canarywood1 06-15-2014 09:31 PM

Like Dick said, the joint between the old and new slab needs expansion joint as doe's the brick wall.

jomama45 06-16-2014 06:25 PM

This is a couple year old post, but just so it's not too confusing, the "expansion" joint actually has a more important job in this scenario, as a bond breaker. If the concrete is poured directly against the rough brick face, it can "lock" into it and create damage when the slab-on-grade moves...........


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