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Old 04-02-2013, 11:39 PM   #1
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Adding on to curved, stamped concrete


I've been scratching my head as how to expand my cement patio. I would love to just simply use some curved forms and rent some concrete stamps and extend the patio but I have a few reservations. If you look at the pictures I would like to follow the border of grass but take out the triangle piece of grass, which would create a very thin pie of cement that I feel would break off over time. What is everyone's thoughts on my situation...any suggestions?

If I were to concrete it I would dowel into the existing slab but don't think it would help in the pie shaped area of grass (center of the second picture) as it the new concrete would thin out to meet the existing patio. Hope the pictures help explain myself better as I feel I'm not being particularly clear.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:34 AM   #2
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Adding on to curved, stamped concrete


consider yourself very lucky you can even rent stamps,,, won't find 'em here !

place the right jnt pattern & control the cracking,,, next time you enter or leave a 4lane, look at the gore,,, it, too, is long & skinny but not cracked due to the correct jnt pattern.

re doweling - i wouldn't UNLESS its 5 or 6" conc,,, you really need 2" of ' cover ' on any steel according to aci,,, just like wire mesh, steel's not adding much to 4" of conc & may even cause it to crk more easily.

curious who did the existing stamp'd conc ?

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Old 04-03-2013, 10:37 AM   #3
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Adding on to curved, stamped concrete


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consider yourself very lucky you can even rent stamps,,, won't find 'em here !

place the right jnt pattern & control the cracking,,, next time you enter or leave a 4lane, look at the gore,,, it, too, is long & skinny but not cracked due to the correct jnt pattern.

re doweling - i wouldn't UNLESS its 5 or 6" conc,,, you really need 2" of ' cover ' on any steel according to aci,,, just like wire mesh, steel's not adding much to 4" of conc & may even cause it to crk more easily.

curious who did the existing stamp'd conc ?
Thanks for the reply and taking your time, when I posted this thread, I knew you and a few others would be the ones to reply, which I'm thankful for as you have had a lot to offer others about concrete.

I'm assuming when you're talking 4 lane you are speaking about a highway offramp where it comes to a sliver to meet the highway as it peels off...correct? If so, you make a good point.

Good information on doweling appreciate that and makes sense to me, I knew it is recommended in situations, but never learned how thick the concrete has to be above and below the dowel for its use to be a benefit rather than a problem.

I'm going to try and get the picture in a paint program and see if I can draw some joint patterns and see what you think of them and critique.

Regarding who did the existing stamped concrete work, I'm assuming it was the tract builder, I bought this home in foreclosure and fixed it up, the concrete patio was already there. I like the stamped look and the curved edges, however, the patio is much to small for any type of entertaining, and there was never grass on either side of the patio just dirt, that should have been concrete.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:50 AM   #4
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Adding on to curved, stamped concrete


Here is my plan. Is this what you would do for control joints?

I'm probably just overthinking on a problem that won't exist. I was really just worried about where the concrete narrows that it would sluff off at the thinnest point next to the existing concrete.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:20 PM   #5
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Adding on to curved, stamped concrete


yep, 4lane or any other lanes - we call 'em ' gores ' but NOT ' algores ' reason being gores make sense whereas the other idiot never did anytime in his life

wire & carbon fiber mesh, rebar, & fiber all have their place / uses but not in your yard imo,,, everyone thinks wire mesh adds to conc's strength - it does but ONLY when the conc's in tension ( plastic to green to initial cure ) after that, it only holds the crack'd pieces together & makes it more miserable when someone has to demo the job
rebar adds nothing to compressive strength however it does add to flexural strength,,, that's why multiple mats of rebar in bdge decks

use longitudinal dowels primarily when adding a hgwy lane or apron/runway widening,,, load transverse doweling is for driving / passing lane jnts.


nothing wrong i can see w/your location's as shown,,, the last spec i saw for jnt cutting was t/3 ( initial cut is 1/3rd X thickness ) [ 4" / 3 = 1 1/3rd inches deep )
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:05 PM   #6
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Thanks for following up! And we are of like minds about both "gores". I've never had any use for Al Gore . It's good to know that what I'm proposing to do, will work. Again your expertise is appreciated!
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:21 PM   #7
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Adding on to curved, stamped concrete


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Thanks for following up! And we are of like minds about both "gores". I've never had any use for Al Gore . It's good to know that what I'm proposing to do, will work. Again your expertise is appreciated!

If you cut that #1 control joint ,more than likely your going to lose that piece.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:48 PM   #8
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Adding on to curved, stamped concrete


I'm actually putting a quote together tonight for a very similar project. Actually, I already added on to the original patio a few years ago, and now the HO want's to add on a second time to make it even bigger. I guess kids' toys will make you do that......Anyway, the addition we put on has a seamless stamp texture, similar to yours. I'd highly suggest using a darker release color to serve as a visual border/accent to the original, as you're not going to match the existing color.

As for the shape, we faced the same issue with the sliver that was created where it blended back into the existing. I try to avoid those like the plague, as Canarywood noted, it's just going to be an issue, and will crack off. For this particular job, we're planning on doing a "bump-out" to accomedate a B-ball hoop, so it will come in at around 90 degrees. In you're case, I'd consider continuing the patio addition around the balance of the patio, even if it's only 2' wide, and make it serve as a decorative border.

Dowels: I would drill and install them w/o thinking twice. They will keep the two slabs together when the slabs are subjected to freeze-thaw cycles, if one of the patio's see's a little settlement, etc... Having 2" of rebar cover is ideal, but it certainly isn't necessary for a residential patio. I'm a firm believer in using steel re-inforcement as well, regardless of what 50 year old text books may say. My experiences in a freeze-thaw cycle climate have shown me that a properly re-enforced concrete slab will out-perform a non-re-enforced slab 95% of the time................
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:17 AM   #9
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Adding on to curved, stamped concrete


we don't actually disagree,,, its more like reaching the same goal albeit slightly different paths,,, since that small part will crk in jo's, canary's, & my opinion, why not CONTROL it rather'n let it randomly crk ?

dowels're another point: i can see his but my experience suggests differently,,, 50yrs old or not, current testing & specs still support the original dictums

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