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Old 09-16-2011, 01:30 AM   #1
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window trim question


So I installed a new pella vinyl window. Used the "rubber" seal tape, around the window, As instructed.

So now I come to placing the trim around the window. I have 5/4 pre primed trim. And understand the configuration so the rain has somewhere to go.

I placed the trim right next to the window. But the instructions say to have a 3/8 backer rod inserted to create a 1/2" gap. to give the sealant shape and depth.

So where do I find this rod? and do I remove the trim and place it with the rod and gap. Then caulk the trim to the window?

Also, What do I use to shim the trim so it is level. It angles away from the window due to the nailing strip, I used Cedar shims, but feel like that was not a good idea.
I should get this right before I move onto the next.
There is no siding on the wall right now, just the sheathing. Will be installing the hardi plank in a week or so.

thanks

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Old 09-16-2011, 07:28 AM   #2
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window trim question


I am assuming a new construction type window with nailing flange, and you are doing the exterior trim??? Everything goes over the housewrap. You should have housewrap and flashing on the sill framing, there can never be too much waterproofing. You should have run a bead of caulk under the flange before installing the window, then the self adhesive tape starting at the bottom, then the sides ovelapping the bottom, then the top overlapping the sides. This all should have gone over your housewrap, be it tyvek or felt. You will still need a metal flashing at the top that goes up under the housewrap and over the window edge. Install trim, caulking the trim/window edge.

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Old 09-16-2011, 09:22 AM   #3
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window trim question


+2

Backer rod and caulk is typically for an insert/retrofit window sealing.

Sounds like you have a new construction (nailing flange) type window.

Bill is right on about the rest of the flashing etc.
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:47 AM   #4
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window trim question


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Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
I am assuming a new construction type window with nailing flange, and you are doing the exterior trim??? Everything goes over the housewrap. You should have housewrap and flashing on the sill framing, there can never be too much waterproofing. You should have run a bead of caulk under the flange before installing the window, then the self adhesive tape starting at the bottom, then the sides ovelapping the bottom, then the top overlapping the sides. This all should have gone over your housewrap, be it tyvek or felt. You will still need a metal flashing at the top that goes up under the housewrap and over the window edge. Install trim, caulking the trim/window edge.
All good advice except the wrb (housewrap) should go over the tape on the top and sides. Wrapping the housewrap into the hole is an outdated method.
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:08 AM   #5
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window trim question


Backer rod can be found in any big box store around in the section where they have door sweeps.
I'm installing Andersen windows. The instructions say to leave 1/4" between the window and trim. Push in backer rod around the window and then caulk. I didn't. That large of a gap looks like crap. I left 1/8" around the window with no backer rod.
I'm using Azek trim boards and Azek historic sill.
I assemble the window trim first using pocket screws and bring the entire assembled trim box up to the window. I space it evenly around the window by using nails as spacers and screw the entire thing into place as one unit.
I did the same with a door but I did have to add some shims around it because the wall was far out of wack.
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Old 09-16-2011, 01:42 PM   #6
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window trim question


Yes a winow with a nail flange is being used.

I should have asked here first I guess. Thought I had found solid info..

So I installed the self adhesive tape in the window sill framing and up the sides about 6", (it has a silver aluminum type cover on one side) and wraped down onto the house wrap. I then installed the window, without calking. And nailed the flange in. Then I taped up the sides on top of the house wrap, then across the top overlapping the sides and the top was under the house wrap. Then I pulled the house wrap over the tape at the top and secured it with some duct tape. thought that was good for the install. Is it ok, or do I need to start all over?

Then I placed the trim boards around the window using the same configuration as the tape, except at the bottom I ran the trim between the other 2 boards.
Due to the nail flange and the tape the trim does not sit flat against the wall. So I spaced it out with some cedar shims.
I also left only a tiny gap between the window and the trim. Then I was going to put a metal rain cap over the top trim board, and not the window.
Then put the siding on and caulk it to the trim. This way I could remove the window and not ruin the siding if that need arise in the future.
Now I think I need a bigger cauling area.. Do I need to just seal the window to the trim at the outside, or does the calk have to go all of the way back to the base of the trim/window joint.
I though I had better ask and make sure it is all ok, before I go any further this weekend.


thank you for the help.
Doug
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Old 09-17-2011, 01:34 AM   #7
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window trim question


You need to make sure you don't have any "negative laps" in that with your housewrap and peel and stick, the laps will always be so that the water will drip down with nothing lapped in a manner so that water can ingress.IE start at the bottom and work your way up, always lapping over the bottom layer. When I was installing windows we would\

Tyvec: Wrap sill, sides, then top, all wrapped into opening, caulked onto RO framing to seal the envelope (standard around here anyways, may change regionally)

Then membrane (peel and stick) goes onto sill, wraps up onto framing (not the side paper). gussets as necessary. Side paper is placed over peel and stick (would usually tack it up and out of the way while putting on the peel n stick). Shims placed on sill for level, bead of caulk place on sill prior to installation. There are a few different methods depending on area and whether you are retrofitting and keeping siding in place, or applying housewrap over the whole wall. Whatever additional peel and stick/membrane applications you do once window is in (sides, top, etc.) just remember to always lap the materials properly, think of where the rain will go.

Duct tape has no place for a window installation, "tuck tape" (red) is fairly standard.

For your trim I am trying to picture what you are doing, a pic would help. There are some great guides on the net for trimming out a window.

Remember not to nail the nails too tight to the flange with vinyl windows, for expansion and contraction. Same practice as vinyl siding.

Last edited by chrisBC; 09-17-2011 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 09-17-2011, 06:21 AM   #8
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window trim question


To answer your question about the issue with the nailing flange, I always relieve the back of the trim on the table saw to give clearance for the flange and prevent it from tipping the trim out.

As for the clearances for backer rod and caulk, I think 3/8 looks hideous. That being said, you should adhere to that practice if you're going to caulk the juncture between the window and trim. 1/4" is the minimim, in my opinion.

If a caulk bead is too thin or narrow, it will fail over time. The backer rod helps to shape the bead and reduce the amount of caulk required to fill the void. The backer rod should be set back deep enough to allow for a decent thickness, or again, the bead will fail over time.

If you are not familiar with backer rod, it is simply a round foam product, available in different diameters.


http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...&va=backer+rod
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Last edited by loneframer; 09-17-2011 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 09-17-2011, 06:46 PM   #9
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window trim question


I never thought about cutting the trim board enough to alow the nailing flange space. Thanks.
Also I will get some backer rod, and caulk the window to the trim. if 3/8 looks that bad, what should I use? 1/4?
I will see if I can get some photo's, and get it posted.

thanks
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Old 09-18-2011, 11:07 PM   #10
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window trim question


HomeSealed, do have a reference site of this you could share? "All good advice except the wrb (housewrap) should go over the tape on the top and sides. Wrapping the housewrap into the hole is an outdated method."
Thanks, Gary
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:31 AM   #11
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window trim question


there should be no need to caulk the trim to the windowi gap it 3/16- 1/4'' and call it good,if your weather proofing depends on caulk you did it wrong
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:58 AM   #12
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window trim question


i also think the window flange should be direct to the sheathing on the sides and top,i see no advantage to pulling in the wrb into the ro,but i do see potential problems ,i prefer the B method
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:13 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
there should be no need to caulk the trim to the windowi gap it 3/16- 1/4'' and call it good,if your weather proofing depends on caulk you did it wrong
What happened to always follow the manufactures instructions Tom?
Blind caulk for me.




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i also think the window flange should be direct to the sheathing on the sides and top,i see no advantage to pulling in the wrb into the ro,but i do see potential problems ,i prefer the B method
Me too.
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
HomeSealed, do have a reference site of this you could share? "All good advice except the wrb (housewrap) should go over the tape on the top and sides. Wrapping the housewrap into the hole is an outdated method."
Thanks, Gary
I do not have a site handy, but that is how both Installation Masters and AWDI are now teaching it if my memory serves correct. It is also how OSI mandates its Winteq system be applied to offer their installation warranty coverage.
It makes the most sense if you think about it. I don't understand why it would have ever been anything different.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:49 PM   #15
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Hey Gary, here is that link: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...ement-details/
Note: "Often, due to the different trades on the site, or the sequencing of materials being delivered to
the site, the windows may be installed before or after the installation of the drainage plane
material. In either case, provisions must be made to allow the window to be integrated into the
drainage plane of the assembly. It is important to ensure that the building paper or housewrap
laps over the flange and self adhered membrane at the head of the window. If the building
paper/housewrap is installed prior to the window, then a flap of paper at the head should be
turned up during the installation of the window, then the flap can be dropped back down over the
top of the flange. Using self adhered membrane flashings and other tapes to seal the nailing
flange at the head of the window, while reducing the risk of water intrusion, still create a reverse
lap and must remain completely sealed for the service life of the installation in order to be
effective."


Don't you have that whole site memorized by now, .

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