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-   -   Window replacement 60's home (http://www.diychatroom.com/f104/window-replacement-60s-home-155089/)

digitalplumber 08-28-2012 10:04 AM

Window replacement 60's home
 
OK lets be frank, not everyone can afford the 15 to 20k that some window replacement folks want to do windows. Yes the windows are head and shoulders above what is found in the big box stores but.......

So what is a good reasonable priced alternative brand? Have had several high dollar folks out and they blast the makeup of others brands, of course.

The biggest issue they bring to the table, is the make up of the vinyl itself. Apparently some vinyl is suitable for the north, but not the hot south like Texas.

So is this true or a sales pitch? What reasonable alternatives are out there?

Thanks

joecaption 08-28-2012 10:46 AM

I use Wincor and Simmonton all the time and have never had an issue.
Any reason you can not install the windows yourself?
If your dealing with just old wooden double sash windows in most cases it's an easy DIY job just needing simple hand tools and would save you a ton of money.
Post some pictures of what you have now from the inside and out.

Windows on Wash 08-28-2012 10:47 AM

Good vinyl is okay for Texas.

What size project to you have? 15K on 50 windows is cheap.

How many and what type of openings do you have?

In South Texas, you need supremely low SHGC numbers so look for something in the Low-e 366, SB 70XL, or Climaguard 62/27.

digitalplumber 08-28-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 998275)
I use Wincor and Simmonton all the time and have never had an issue.
Any reason you can not install the windows yourself?
If your dealing with just old wooden double sash windows in most cases it's an easy DIY job just needing simple hand tools and would save you a ton of money.
Post some pictures of what you have now from the inside and out.


Yes I can do the install, old metal windows. Pics later.

Thanks

digitalplumber 08-28-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windows on Wash (Post 998277)
Good vinyl is okay for Texas.

What size project to you have? 15K on 50 windows is cheap.

How many and what type of openings do you have?

In South Texas, you need supremely low SHGC numbers so look for something in the Low-e 366, SB 70XL, or Climaguard 62/27.



Less than 14 windows, plus 4300 for the patio door! The majority of the windows are exterior brick, where as the patio door and 3 windows are surrounded by Cedar planks.

Windows on Wash 08-28-2012 02:15 PM

That might be a bit expensive for the patio door depending on what it is and how it is optioned out.

If it is a vinyl rolling door, that is expensive.

In terms of vinyl for Texas, I would prefer to see a high DP Rating and some sash reinforcement.

Where in Texas are you located?

digitalplumber 08-28-2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windows on Wash (Post 998407)
That might be a bit expensive for the patio door depending on what it is and how it is optioned out.

If it is a vinyl rolling door, that is expensive.

In terms of vinyl for Texas, I would prefer to see a high DP Rating and some sash reinforcement.

Where in Texas are you located?




Yes very expensive although the stuff is nice!

Houston

Windows on Wash 08-28-2012 03:03 PM

What stuff where you quoted at that number?

Very nice it might be, however, I would be willing to bet I can find something that is nearly as good and will fit your application just fine.

digitalplumber 08-28-2012 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windows on Wash (Post 998432)
What stuff where you quoted at that number?

Very nice it might be, however, I would be willing to bet I can find something that is nearly as good and will fit your application just fine.


By stuff do you mean brand name: Gulf Coast Windows. 14 white vinyl windows with rails. 1 patio door was 4300.

Windows on Wash 08-28-2012 03:50 PM

Do you know which brand of window you were quoted?

At the end of the day, you might be able to pay another company to do the project, with a better window, for much less.

Depending on the size and options in the windows, that project should be able to be done for somewhere in the 11-13,000 range.

digitalplumber 08-28-2012 04:05 PM

Thanks but that is still way out of budget.

HomeSealed 08-30-2012 05:08 PM

Looks like the SPAM was taken down, but to answer your question regarding the difference in quality: YES! There are tremendous differences between vinyl windows. You can find A level products, F level products, and everything in between. It would be like asking if all cars are about the same because they all have four wheels and a motor... There are distinct differences in quality in the design and construction of every single component of a window, including the vinyl extrusion, composition of vinyl, glass and coatings, spacer system, weatherstripping grade and amount, sill design, interlock design, balance system, manufacturing tolerances, quality control, and I could go on and on. Fortunately, all windows are tested thermally by the NFRC, and structurally to standards set by AAMA, so a look at those independently tested ratings will not only tell you how the window will actually perform, but will give you a very good indication of how well the window is designed and built. It is truly a sum of all those parts.
Many people will say: "well what is really the difference between a window with a .30 u value and .29 air infiltration rating compared to the one with a .26 u value and a .01? How much will that save me on my energy bills? After all, anything is better than what I have, right?"... Number one, there would be some energy savings there particularly in the air-tightness, but more importantly, which one of those two windows do you expect to have more bowed sashes, glass seal failures, etc etc, five years down the road? Which window is going to last 10 yrs and which 30?
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of "snake-oil" salesmen in this industry using smoke and mirrors just like in car sales, that why those rating are imho the best way to cut through all of the "salesmanship".
A pretty solid starting point to expect a good window installed would probably be the $500 range give or take a little bit. For DIY purposes you won't find anything worthwhile under the $200's.

digitalplumber 08-30-2012 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeSealed (Post 999971)
Looks like the SPAM was taken down, but to answer your question regarding the difference in quality: YES! There are tremendous differences between vinyl windows. You can find A level products, F level products, and everything in between. It would be like asking if all cars are about the same because they all have four wheels and a motor... There are distinct differences in quality in the design and construction of every single component of a window, including the vinyl extrusion, composition of vinyl, glass and coatings, spacer system, weatherstripping grade and amount, sill design, interlock design, balance system, manufacturing tolerances, quality control, and I could go on and on. Fortunately, all windows are tested thermally by the NFRC, and structurally to standards set by AAMA, so a look at those independently tested ratings will not only tell you how the window will actually perform, but will give you a very good indication of how well the window is designed and built. It is truly a sum of all those parts.
Many people will say: "well what is really the difference between a window with a .30 u value and .29 air infiltration rating compared to the one with a .26 u value and a .01? How much will that save me on my energy bills? After all, anything is better than what I have, right?"... Number one, there would be some energy savings there particularly in the air-tightness, but more importantly, which one of those two windows do you expect to have more bowed sashes, glass seal failures, etc etc, five years down the road? Which window is going to last 10 yrs and which 30?
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of "snake-oil" salesmen in this industry using smoke and mirrors just like in car sales, that why those rating are imho the best way to cut through all of the "salesmanship".


Thanks, is there a website that reviews its findings about the various manufactures oiut there?

digitalplumber 08-30-2012 09:27 PM

Are Pella windows as bad as all of th internet stories?

HomeSealed 08-30-2012 10:12 PM

Reviews are very subjective, so what you are looking for is a "composite" score so to speak. If the overwhelming majority of reviews about a given product are positive, then that speaks volumes. If it is very mixed or tilts toward negative, that is rather telling as well. I would weigh the overall sentiment along with the objective performance ratings in your decision making process.
Pella's higher line wood windows (Architect/Designer) are decent as wood windows go, although not without their issues (rolled formed exterior cladding). The 350 series vinyl is a big step forward for them in terms of quality, however the pocket sill (as opposed to fully welded, sloped) is a highly undesirable design, and a deal breaker on that line in my personal opinion. Above all that, their reputation for customer service is well deserved in my experience. That is not a positive commentary.
For some additional window-specific commentary, this site has great info, and there are additional "window forum" resources as well to help round-out your perspective. A simple google search would turn that up.:)


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