Who knows about installing windows?

Old_Boy_Scout · 09-06-2011, 07:54 PM

I'd appreciate some advice!

We hired a contractor to remove the cedar shakes and ancient windows from our house and replace them with cedar-looking vinyl siding and vinyl new construction windows. He's done a great job so far with the siding, but the windows, not so sure. Not knowing anything about windows, I didn't look too much into it until the first time it rained with the new ones. There was no siding on the back of the house, and there's one window back there with no eaves covering it that water was coming into. The problem was that there was a patch above the window with no housewrap covering it, and water was getting under it.

He has the housewrap coming in every side of the window, with all four sides taped outside. All the windows are like this:

but none of them had any leaks, thanks to my houses' huge eaves. Even during the hurricane, all the other windows were fine. I eventually found this EPA article:

http://www.epa.gov/indoorairplus/tec...sture/1_6.html

That way makes more sense to me. The instructions from the window manufacturer, the housewrap manufacturer, and the tape manufacturer all match it. Hell, there are instructions on the sticker on every window that show this method. Is this a big enough deal to talk with the contractor about?

sixeightten · 09-06-2011, 07:57 PM

The bottom of the window flange should never be taped. That is window 101.

**Gary in WA** · 09-06-2011, 11:37 PM

Yes, talk to him.

Failed Typar; http://www.bostoncedar.com/pdfs/Typa...stallation.pdf

Failed Tyvek; http://www.napleslumber.com/catalogs/HTyvek-81994.pdf

Failed BSC; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...researchreport

But, you already knew that.
Failed Fine Home Building; http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-...x?nterms=63740

Failed all of these; http://www.bcbuildinginfo.com/displa...&topic_id=1036

He’ll probably come inside and stuff some fiberglass insulation next; http://books.google.com/books?id=a298Hrpiu8AC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=Proski w+%281995%29&source=bl&ots=R3I2-fFVTl&sig=beKYTj24gopGv73x7cKL9XKEyJY&hl=en&ei=MHk NTbCWJou6sQPAiPXyCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result& resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Proskiw%20(19 95)&f=false

Many people don’t know this one for head flashing, including siding subs and contractors, page #8—end dams; http://www.mtcc1170.com/images/BCRainScreen.pdf

Gary

Tom Struble · 09-07-2011, 01:02 AM

end dam detail not necessary or applicable with vinyl siding imo

**kwikfishron** · 09-07-2011, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBR in WA

Many people don’t know this one for head flashing, including siding subs and contractors, page #8—end dams; http://www.mtcc1170.com/images/BCRainScreen.pdf

I’d rather have the top edges of the head trim wrapped and protected from wind driven rain than trading that off to create an end dam. Where’s the benefit there?

Drilling 2”+ holes in the sheathing for ventilation? When did that become the way to do it?

Now we have to half lap? The suppliers got to love that one.

Windows on Wash · 09-07-2011, 11:47 AM

Drip caps are not critical in properly done vinyl siding applications in my mind.

The rest of those flashing details in the pictures are off as mentioned.

Tom Struble · 09-07-2011, 05:41 PM

i don't think the op will ever have any problems,details while not to current spec are probably adequate

**Gary in WA** · 09-08-2011, 11:17 PM

Just giving you what I feel is important..... the head flashing was pointed out, not the rest of the article. Canada is required by Code to head flash with end dams, I expect the U.S. will in the future; http://joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/2062

Two layers of WRB has been around for a while: http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/News_I...o%20Layers.pdf

If it was my house, I would use Tyvek under the felt (helps seal the nail holes, housewrap fasteners unless capped and wicks water out from behind), and not rely on housewrap tape (unless back-applied rather than face-applied) for water-management. But I would never use vinyl.....that's me.

With vinyl, there will be water behind it, hopefully none gets to the OSB; http://sidingmaster.com/documents/Ne...ngmoisture.pdf

And with 20% of windows leaking, be sure not to seal the outside bottom window flange to trap any water underneath;http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...WrZBbBZoIUXgxw

Gary

Tom Struble · 09-08-2011, 11:34 PM

Gary why do you keep posting that sidingmaster stuff,nothing independent there

theres alot of scare about windows leaking out there,most windows probably don't need all this taping,but common sense caulking and wrb installations would take care of 90% of potential problems

tyvek under felt is kind of goofy,why would you put a fairly high permeable product in between two less permeable ones?

TrapperL · 09-09-2011, 12:12 AM

I'll only chime here to say there is more than one way to install a window according to ASTM standards. Unless I can't see well, which might be happening, there may be caulk installed per ASTM standards that the pics aren't showing. We use mostly the Type B method here and the largest building materials company in the USA installs accordingly....and it looks a lot like your install. Head flashing would not be required because of the location of the soffit in relation to the window. But here's the ASTM methods for you to review. Since you can look closely at what the guy did, you can see more than pics will ever show.
http://media.godashboard.com/gti/1Re...t%20Report.pdf

**Gary in WA** · 09-10-2011, 08:57 PM

Thanks for that TrapperL. Could I ask if you have seen/used a type "W- flashing"? It is first mentioned here in 2004, page 69; http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/hand...pdf?sequence=1

Tom, I will replace that link, thanks.
"tyvek under felt is kind of goofy,why would you put a fairly high permeable product in between two less permeable ones?"-------

Any building paper (5-30 perms), felt (5 dry-60 perms when wet), or housewrap; Tyvek-58 perms, Typar- 16 perms, etc. would have a perm rating higher than the sheathing plywood or OSB (0.75) so it's a moot point. The felt would help seal all the fastener holes as well as siding holes, when/if saturated - the HW would still protect.

Old Boy Scout, it appears to be 3 different sets of three joined windows...... I see no sill flashing or pan, per link TrapperL sited. I see they cut into your corner board rather than removed it because of the service entrance- HW stops short- did they at least tape it? Tom, isn't there to be a J-flash below the window at the new vinyl installed in last picture? Hope that's a big over-hang in the last window picture at least a foot above..... As per window instructions, 1/4" shims required under unit?

Gary