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Old 12-22-2013, 04:29 PM   #1
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Pocket Door - Header question


I want to install a pocket door in my half bath, and pulled the sheetrock off to see what I've got to work with.

In looking at install instructions for pocket doors of various vendors on the web, I haven't seen any reference to what I see - and I want to know how to handle MY situation. Here is a link to a typical install instruction sheet :
http://www.johnsonhardware.com/image...D/IN2000PD.pdf

Now a couple of pictures of what I have:
Pocket Door - Header question-img_20131222_154845_small.jpg
Pocket Door - Header question-img_20131222_154901_small.jpg
As you can see, the header is solid over the door, like it is load bearing... but only over the door?

Does that mean the wall the door is in is a load bearing wall? And how do I handle this?

Thanks in advance,
Rich

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Old 12-22-2013, 05:03 PM   #2
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Pocket Door - Header question


Whole wall is load bearing, add a new header/jacks; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_par024.htm

Gary

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Old 12-22-2013, 05:36 PM   #3
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Pocket Door - Header question


Gary,

What is above the door now is 2, 2"x9" pieces of lumber (at least that is exact measurement) - the link you provided indicates for Interior Load bearing walls, for a building width less than 20', supporting 2 floors, for a span of no more than 2'2" (this door is 24"); you need 1 jack stud and a header made of 2 2x4's.... much less than the 2 2x9's currently in place.

Why would the original builder go so big? Am I missing something?

To provide more detail:
This bathroom is located on an exterior wall.
There is less than 20' from the external wall to the ridge.
The building is 2 story, and bathroom is on the 1st floor.
The floor joists on the first floor run perpendicular to the rafters and trusses.

I would appreciate suggestions on HOW to replace the old header with the new. I am in no way a framing carpenter.

Thanks,
Rich
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:54 PM   #4
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Pocket Door - Header question


Are you really going to put a pocket door in an exterior wall?
How will you insulate and weather strip?
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:03 PM   #5
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Pocket Door - Header question


Around here, many framers used the exterior header stock (2x10 in your case) for interior doors as well. Ease of use. They were not thinking... unless the wall is perpendicular to the joists above- bearing on the wall. Any additional loads above will transmit down to/through that wall to earth below, hence the code requirements. Meet minimum code or exceed it and you will be fine if there are no "point loads" on the header (beam carrying more than it's own load, ridge beam post load, etc.). If there was a huge load above- the gap between header/filler plate below- wound not still be there, IMO.

Temp support the ceilings on both sides of wall- carpet scrap on top/bottom, if needed on temp. wall, remove drywall, replace header with longer one per code, add jacks, remove temp walls, drywall/tape/texture.

Gary
PS. appears to be drywall on both side with an interior door.
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:06 PM   #6
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Pocket Door - Header question


If the lumber is 1 1/2 x 9 1/4" you have a 2x10---the spec sheet for your pocket door frame will have the 'rough opening ' size---you need to frame the opening to that size----use a pair of 2x10s with a slice of 1/2" plywood to achieve the 3 1/2" thickness that you need for the header---

If that is a bearing wall( the heavy header does not necessarily mean that is a bearing wall--I use solid headers every where in new construction)--you may need to build a temporary wall to support the structure above---

Have you removed the ceiling drywall? If so--post a picture---
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:07 PM   #7
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Pocket Door - Header question


Gary beat me to it
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:23 PM   #8
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Lol, I'm ALWAYS after someone else.... it feels pretty good.... :-)

Gary
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Old 12-22-2013, 07:26 PM   #9
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Pocket Door - Header question


Check out the nails in the ceiling joist in the first picture, the joists in that room do not rest on that wall but run the same way as the wall. I don't know if the joists in the next room rest on that wall or not.

Back when I was building we made all the headers with 2X12 no matter what size because we did all of our make up before we started raising walls. It would have been more trouble to make a 2 header out of 2X8 and keep all the door and window bucks separate, so I just bit the bullet and bought 2X12s for headers.

You will need to find out for sure if any floor joists rest on that wall before removing the header there now. If it isn't a load bearing wall just remove that header and make another one and install. If it is a loaded wall you will have to take other measures in order to R&R the header.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:02 PM   #10
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So concensus is we need to look under the ceiling in this room, to see if the floor joists for the 2nd floor are resting on the interior wall (over the door)?

If they are not - then it is probably not load bearing.

How much do I need to remove? Can I get by with a section. Simple fact is I have a limited number of sheets on hand and don't have a vehicle that can carry something that large. Last time the delivery charge was over $60. BUT - I'll do what needs to be done.

Speak up!

and thanks...

Rich
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Old 12-23-2013, 03:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdarlin2 View Post
So concensus is we need to look under the ceiling in this room, to see if the floor joists for the 2nd floor are resting on the interior wall (over the door)?

You will need to remove a spot of the sheet rock big enough for you to be able to see the top of the wall. You need to see if joists from either room are resting on that wall. If it is not a loaded wall there should be a sheet rock nailer on top of the wall for each room. Be sure there is not a beam resting on top of the wall also.


If they are not - then it is probably not load bearing.

Right.

How much do I need to remove? Can I get by with a section. Simple fact is I have a limited number of sheets on hand and don't have a vehicle that can carry something that large. Last time the delivery charge was over $60. BUT - I'll do what needs to be done.

You may be able to remove a little sheet rock in just one place maybe 12 inches by 16 or 18 inches, just make sure you make it large enough to be able to see both sides of the top of the wall.

Speak up!

and thanks...

Rich
I hope this helps.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:39 PM   #12
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Pocket Door - Header question


I've opened the ceiling and can see there is no floor joist for the 2nd floor resting on the wall. There is a 2x6 laid flat across the top 2x4. It extends over both sides of the wall to give something to nail the ceiling sheet rock to.

So do you think I can eliminate the 2x10 header and replace it with a 2x4 header and proceed with the pocket door kit?

Rich
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:20 PM   #13
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Yes,you can--that 2x6 on top is a drywall nailer----frame the header out of 2x4s if you wish.

A tip ----pocket door frame kits use 1x4s as drywall nailers--if you fill in the spaces between them with 3/4" ply---the wall will be stiffer and hanging towel bars or other bath accessories much easier--
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:44 PM   #14
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Just be aware that you can not use too long a screw or nail or you will nail the door open or shut.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:45 PM   #15
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Pocket Door - Header question


That's funny---my assistant nailed one open a couple of weeks back---Long brads for the base moldings----

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