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-   -   No Flashing on Andersen Windows (http://www.diychatroom.com/f104/no-flashing-andersen-windows-183715/)

eclipsis 07-16-2013 03:08 PM

No Flashing on Andersen Windows
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hello,

I pulled off some rotted window trim and was somewhat surprised when I saw bare wood behind it (and the vinyl siding). After some research, it seems WRB were not required until 2006. My house was built in 2001.

I was also surprised to see no flashing. I have not yet pulled the top or bottom trim board so I'm not sure what is there. I called Andersen trying to find an installation guide for my windows, but was told they were discontinued. They did tell me they were double hung PSNL (Perma-Shield NarrowLine) windows that were manufactured in 2001.

I am also a bit confused about how j-channel is supposed to be water tight. From what I understand, j-channel cannot be glued, silicone, etc. to the window trim because it would break apart when it expand and contracts in changing temperature. I don't understand how this can keep water off the bare wood.

Questions
I know this is a lot of text so I'll try to ask some specific questions:

1. Are there any Andersen windows that should be installed without flashing? The house was built by Dominion in 2001. If not, should I put some flashing tape over the flanges while replacing the trim?

2. When water gets between the j-channel and trim, its supposed to just run down the bare wood without causing damage (no WRB)?

3. Should j-channel on the bottom of a window stick out past the edge of the trim? Its sort of hard to see in the second attached image, but the bottom j-channel seems like it would just collect any water running down the window and bring it behind the siding.

4. Probably open to opinion, but is there any reason not to replace the cedar trim with Miratec? I can get Miratec cheaper per foot than cedar.


As always, thanks for the info and help. The amount of rot I found under the first window greatly increased what I was hoping to be a straightforward project (but I will save that for a separate thread :) )

joecaption 07-16-2013 06:41 PM

Your missing everything that would stop the window from leaking and rotting out the wall.
There was suppose to be house wrap and window tape.
Even in 2001 there should have been at least tar paper (not anymore)
Someone just did a slam bam think you maim job on that house.

oh'mike 07-16-2013 06:49 PM

As Joe said, the windows are fine--but the house wrap or tar paper is missing--and the window tape---you might have some rotten sheeting under your siding---a lot of water gets through vinyl siding and is usually sent to the ground by the house wrap.

Look for signs of water at your sill plates.

eclipsis 07-16-2013 08:20 PM

Yeah, I was quite shocked when I saw the bare wood. I know very little about construction but have some common sense. Quick research showed that vinyl siding is not expected to be water tight. So I was a bit confused. It is odd that the upper part of the wood is in such good shape for being 2001. Even around the window flanges the wood seems solid still.

I need to lift up some more siding. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but this particular window is in a bay window type knock out. So maybe I'll find tar paper on the main walls and its only missing from the knock out (wishful thinking anyway...)

eclipsis 07-16-2013 08:39 PM

So just to recap, let me know if any of my understanding is not correct:

1. Are there any Andersen windows that should be installed without flashing? The house was built by Dominion in 2001. If not, should I put some flashing tape over the flanges while replacing the trim?

The windows should have flashing tape over the flanges regardless of brand or model.


2. When water gets between the j-channel and trim, its supposed to just run down the bare wood without causing damage (no WRB)?

Water can and will get between the j-channel and trim, its not supposed to be water tight. The water should simply roll down the building paper or WRB out the bottom of the siding (however in my case I have neither).


3. Should j-channel on the bottom of a window stick out past the edge of the trim? Its sort of hard to see in the second attached image, but the bottom j-channel seems like it would just collect any water running down the window and bring it behind the siding.

Probably not ideal but see #2, water should simply exit the bottom of the siding.


4. Probably open to opinion, but is there any reason not to replace the cedar trim with Miratec? I can get Miratec cheaper per foot than cedar.

My guess is Miratec.

oh'mike 07-16-2013 10:40 PM

I'm going to leave the siding questions for a siding expert---I know wood siding,but very little about vinyl siding.

That window needs window wrap--stick roll--Depot has it and I imagine all other stores that sell windows will sell it to---

I wrap the bottom and side framing before installing the window--then tape the top of the window to the sheeting--overlap the tape with the Tyvec house wrap and tape it again--then the sides and bottom.

Obviously you can't over lap the Tyvek--but you get the idea---no head flashing is needed at the window---a Z molding above the top trim might be a good idea,but without Tyvek??????

joecaption 07-17-2013 04:43 AM

Just noticed, they also left out the caulking behind the nailing fins.
You right there also should have been Z molding over the top of that window and another piece over the J molding at the bottom to direct the water away from the trim and not let it leak between the j and the trim.
A siding job done right does not require caulking.

kwikfishron 07-17-2013 05:25 AM

I know this isn't what you want to hear but all of the siding needs to come off the house and a WRB installed with all of the appropriate flashing's.

The good news is that with vinyl siding you should be able to reuse all of the same siding as long as you have the right crew doing the job or even if you're going to do it the siding should come off systematically in the reverse order as it went on. Numbering all of the pieces is the key to making the re-installation go easy.

eclipsis 07-19-2013 09:40 PM

The more I read the more I figured that may be the case. I pulled up some siding on the other sides and main walls and they were all bare OSB underneath. I'm assuming no flashing but haven't pulled any trim boards.

I'm still a bit confused why this is the case though. The house was built by a reputable builder (Dominion) in a nice neighborhood in 2001. I tried to find building codes to see if either tar paper or house wrap (or some sort of wrb) was required under siding along with window flashing or just highly recommended.

Either way, I guess at this point the burden falls to me. A bit annoyed my inspector didn't notice this either... but we all need summer projects right :)

oh'mike 07-20-2013 05:14 AM

I've seen that in the past-----somebody cut a corner----often the sill plate and rim joists are damaged by the lack of wrap----

joecaption 07-20-2013 06:07 AM

Most of us have seen far worst.
I had one 10 year old 2, story house where they had used Cellotex with no plywood in the outside corners.
The windows were rough framed to big and there was no nails in the nailing fins, there was only 1/2 the head of the nails on the outside of the fin holding them in. We could remove the whole window by just pulling on them.
The outside vent for the gas fire place was in direct contact with the Cellotex which in big letters says right on it Flammable. The vent was also installed upside down. In big letters it said UP right on the vent.
Siding was nailed every 4' and 1/2 missed the studs.


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