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spidersmouse 01-11-2013 06:53 AM

New Jelwen's collecting water between top rail and frame
New addition, tipped in the top sash of my double hung JelWen to remove it and found water dripping off the top aluminum and collecting on the top rail wood (wood interior aluminum exterior). Lots of water. Assuming its condensation. Only is happening on the larger windows with two latches, not on the smaller double hungs with only one center latch. I contacted the builder, who said he'll call JelWen-been waiting a couple weeks. Meanwhile, I can wipe off the water, shut the window, next day, more water dripping on the top rail. Window seems to shut tight. Any thoughts? I'm already at the stage I would trim, drywall is up tight to window frame, siding and trim outside are done.

HomeSealed 01-11-2013 07:10 AM

Impossible to say without an inspection. You may want to call out a pro to take a look. I suppose it is possible hat it could be condensation, but I've never see it in that area. Generally, if the interior moisture makes it that far, it will continue all the way out. It is very possible that some poor flashing is leading to water infiltration. Is there any detail on on the exterior that is different for these two windows compared to the others? Ie: these are surrounded by siding while the others are in brick, or anything along those lines...

spidersmouse 01-11-2013 07:45 AM

Nothing unusual except these are all second floor windows. None on first floor have the issue, but then again all first floor are single latch. Some small ones on second floor are fine (single latch). Windows affected face east west and north with no difference in condition. Siding trim same on all. I have photos which show he Graced around outside after installing. No moisture difference in home on second floor. Vinyl siding with 4" Smartside trim boards around windows. Because its only on the windows with two latches, I'm guessing that means something, just don't know what. Concerned that as I wait for the rep, water is running on the unfinished wood top rail...this isnt' just damp, its wet.

spidersmouse 01-11-2013 07:47 AM

forgot to mention, I have 6 windows which are fine (single latches), and 9 dripping (double latches)

joecaption 01-11-2013 07:51 AM

Pictures would be great.
Has it been raining or snowing where you are?
High winds?
Where these flat jamb windows by chance? In other words was there a nailing fin? No nailing fin is a flat jamb window.

spidersmouse 01-11-2013 08:15 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hopefully this worked, photo of one window I stained (noted the problem and didn't do any others). No difference in weather other than we installed in October, and weather has gotten colder (Wisconsin). We've had warm days, cold days, rain, snow, wind. It isn't worse or better. Every time I open the sash, there's water accumulating and dripping.

spidersmouse 01-11-2013 08:21 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's a photo of the exterior prior to siding and trim. Shows the Grace and Tyvek placement.

joecaption 01-11-2013 08:28 AM

Unless they did more work around those windows after that picture was taken before the siding went up there missing the top piece of window tape and the windows are missing a piece of Z moulding over the windows.
What that would have done is form a drip cap over the window so as moisture formed behind the siding it would not run into the top of the window.

Also that trim job on the inside looks funky to me, hard to say with that close a picture.
There was suppost to be expanding foam used to fill any gaps and jamb extentions then casing to cover up the big gap I'm seeing.

spidersmouse 01-11-2013 08:35 AM

they did tape the top with grace then drap the tyvek back down over it. they did not put any more flashing or trim in, what you see is how it was when trimmed on the exterior. there is no expanding foam-on the interior i can see shims between the framing and window unit, the gap is 1/8 to 1/4 on various windows. I am having terrible trouble getting the upper sashes to slide back up. They hit the metal strip in front of the storm window at the top. In fact, one will not go back up now that I took it down for the photo. I could smack it up all day, and its not going. I can't push that metal strip back enough to make clearance for the sash.

HomeSealed 01-11-2013 08:51 AM

It's pretty warm and rainy here right now. If you are currently experiencing the problem, that is definitely not condensation. The house wrap lapped over the tape is correct. In addition, they should have back- caulked the nailing flange, and added metal flashing as joe mentioned. The fact that there is no insulation around the openings (if I understand you correctly) is alarming as well. Did they just not get to that yet? On the difficult operation, that could be product or install related.
The fact that you are having this issue on the units with two locks (the wider units), should be nothing more than coincidence. Are these windows located under the eave, or on the gable end side?

joecaption 01-11-2013 09:06 AM

There should have been a piece of this installed just above the window and one over the flat trim.

spidersmouse 01-11-2013 09:37 AM

Well, figured out the hard operation. The sash is warped. It will have to be replaced.

The JelWen rep said he'll be here Monday and hopefully we'll get some answers. There is no flashing piece as shown in the link. Homesealed you're right, its warm here today, foggy and raining, there shouldn't be condensation. The windows are mounted on three exposures, so some under eave some gable. And now I checked and found one of the single latch windows dripping along the top edge, so its not the latch system, its something to do with installation. So far its limited to the second floor. :(

HomeSealed 01-11-2013 09:40 AM

Sounds like it is not product related, but the factory rep may still be able to identify the issue for you more precisely.... I'd have him take a look, and then proceed to contact the company that installed them to get the issue resolved.

joecaption 01-11-2013 09:45 AM

The installer should be on site at the same time as the rep is there!
If not there will be some miscommunication and a song and dance about how the rep does not know what he's talking about.
"that's the way we always do it and never had a leak" Would be something I'd expect the installer to say to you.
No one likes to be told they did something wrong.

spidersmouse 01-11-2013 10:03 AM

I do want the contractor here when the rep is here so they can figure it out and fix it. I paid alot of money for the work, and having water dripping on the top rail is not normal or acceptable. I didn't general the job myself because I didn't have time to be responsible for supervising subs, that's why I paid him-so he can fix it. I asked him about the drip edge/channel and he said that they seal the top flange with Grace (which they did) so there is no way for exterior moisture to be getting it-he said its got to be a problem with a seal. I'll let you all know what the two sides say when they meet up.

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