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Old 05-11-2011, 12:21 AM   #16
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How to choose new windows?


Thank you Emily for dodging my points and demonstrating your total ignorance and bias on the subject.... Here is a fact: The vast majority of vinyl window manufacturers outsource their IG's (glass packages for you consumers), and purchase them from the same companies as the wood manufacturers (cardinal, PPG, guardian, etc). Therefore, your seal failure argument -which seems to be the basis of your argument- is in fact, baseless, and holds no water. As would your completely made-up statements about the glass not being made in a controlled environment, argon fill, etc. Are you sure that you aren't a renewal sales person???... So now that we've debunked that statement, how exactly would a wood window be superior? Perfomance (DP, AI, U-value, etc)? Nope. Price? Nope. Warranty? Nope. Maintenance? Nope.... Did I miss anything?... As I said before, I sell EVERY window material, and I am honest about the fact that they all have their pros and cons-- it would be nice if you were as well. You might have more credibility if that were the case.

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Old 05-12-2011, 08:48 AM   #17
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How to choose new windows?


Emily,

You so need to break up your posts into smaller, more readable sections. It is VERY difficult to follow what you are saying when you have one longgggggggggg paragraph.

If someone were to go to Duluth, MN to see the Marvin plant (which was what I gathered from your post) they would be in for a very long wait since Marvin's main plant is in Warroad, MN which is northwest of Duluth a few hundred miles.

As HomeSealed said, there are good wood windows, and good fiberglass windows, and good vinyl windows. There are also junk wood windows, and junk fiberglass windows, and junk vinyl windows.

I can name vinyl companies who do label their windows just as the wood guys do, and I can name of lower end wood manufacturers who don't label their windows, just as the lower end vinyl guys don't.

I can tell you about a vinyl window that has a DP of 100, energy rating of U.15, and air infiltration of .003 CFM. I can also tell you about vinyl windows that I wouldn't put in a dog house.

My point being that you obviously don't like vinyl windows, but a long, unedited rant about the evils of vinyl really doesn't tell anyone anything other than you really don't like vinyl windows.

Maybe if you used actual, verifiable facts (and broke up your posts into manageable segments), it would make for a more objective discussion versus "you said, I said".

Just saying.......
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Old 05-12-2011, 10:08 AM   #18
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I'm not even going to try to respond to all of that jumbled mess. Here's the deal though: You are trying to compare low-end vinyl products and manufacturers to high-end wood. Its just not a fair comparison at all.

Just a few points:

-Gorell, Sunrise, Softlite, Simonton, PlyGem are very well established vinyl window manufacturers with great reputations and windows that will out perform most (if not all wood products). DP 50, 60, 70 IS available on many of their "everyday windows", and they will have better U-values, AI ratings, Dp ratings, etc. Most are AAMA and NFRC certified. A well designed vinyl window will (IMO) use a sloped sill, not a pocket sill with weep holes as you described. There are various vinyl windows that have various "green" certifications (although again most are probably meaningless)... Gorell does offer hinged vinyl doors.

-Please spell Kolbe correctly. I think I've seen you write Koble 100 x's now.

-I've never seen HD sell windows for $1000+. I'm not advocating their "installed services", but I've not seen them nearly that high.

- Gorell has been energy star partner of the year for 7 years running, although that really doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot anyway. Again on the IG's, you are all wet. Most of the high quality vinyl companies outsource their IG's. Gorell no longer does its own either. You say that you aren't a slimy salesperson, then why resort to their tactics? Just be honest about the pros and cons of each product... although I guess that wouldn't work for you because you'd wouldn't be able to sell that many wood windows anymore.

- Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't think that Pella is as bad as you say, but I don't think it is a world-beater either (plus their customer service is terrible). I sell them occasionally but I prefer Weathershield or Marvin in my wood lines. Even when I have sold Pella, I purchase them through a third party, and do not "receive any leads" from them.

You should really do some fact checking before you make a bunch of wild claims. Your points look like the script of a shady wood window salesman from 20 years ago.... btw, what exactly is fibrex made out of? Vinyl and sawdust. Clearly superior.
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:22 PM   #19
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by EmilyP View Post
Funny, you learn how to spell ANDERSEN correctly on your website.

Great advertisment. More customers are gonna see your mis-spelled word than mine (check out your website)and I will spell Kolbe & Kolbe correctly. There is no Anderson Company any more, they went out of business years ago, in the early 90's. Unless your still installing Ander-s-o-n Windows, from years ago. I was typing fast and didn't spell check, I apologize for the mis spelled word "koble."
Understood. I'll be sure to point that out to my web guy... BTW, you spelled ADVERTISEMENT wrong.

Also, your website says you install Ander"son," which uses fibrex, unless your a switch and bait contractor advertising you install Anders"e"n then installing a off band product. I install some Anderson wood windows by request. Someone as "industry savvy" as you surely knows that the fibrex Renewal product is an exclusive to those dealers. That being said, I would not install it even if I could. It is a decent product, but waay overpriced IMO.. I knew install Pella Proline, from previous posts which isn't even a mid band product!HUH??? I can't respond to jibberish. Your site mentions nothing of Marvin Windows or Weathershield? Again, a switch and bait contractor advertising a band name product and pushing a different product. Not at all. I am very upfront with my clients in that I will install any product that they like. There are certain products that I prefer and I give reasons for that.... So what does your website advertise? Oh, that's right, you prefer to make your ignorant posts anonymously.
I don't understand, if you know about the Pellaclassactionlawsuit.com that your still advertising you install a product that is going to court on a rott issue. Great customer service. Look at all the states involved in the lawsuit against Pella and the web sites. I have seen several subdivisions of these so called view to be the best Pella Windows that have rotting windows, most around 8yrs to 12yr old windows have rotten, aluminum clad poping off the styles and rails, not all the windows rott. But why take a chance. The biggest companies will always be the biggest targets for litigation. Once again, I am NOT Pella's number 1 fan, but there are far worse products out there. BTW, I've seen rotted 10 year old Anderson's as well.

I was trying to make a point on vinyl windows that most companines are crap and I should not have included Gorell Windows and Ply Gem which just posted $70.9 million dollar loss during the first quarter so lets hope they can stay in business, if they can't how good are there warranties then? Really? Come on now. Both of those companies are on very solid financial ground. Despite a 1st quarter loss(not unexpected given the circumstances), why don't you quote PlyGem's other numbers (total revenue, profitability in other periods, etc)... This is one of the largest manufacturers of building products, who incidentally is actively acquiring other manufacturers, and no, I don't mean garbage like Andersen's vinyl acquisitions... It is funny (and ironic) that you disparage HD, yet you promote their primary window offering (Andersen) as being the best.
I'd still recommend Kolbe Window triple pane than a vinyl window such as Gorrell, few a few dollars more, twice the quality product. Once again, please explain why. Do they last longer? Perform better? ...They sure do look nice though.... at twice the cost
Home Depot does charge over$1000 to $1100 plus for installed Siminton(SP?) Window, which I can buy for about $150 to $175 cost. Have the Home Depot At Home Services come out and measure just to see their prices on the install which is a rip off. I have seen their prices, and they are not even close to $1000. Maybe its a regional difference... or maybe you just made that up like most everything else that you say.

You couldn't work for me any way, I'm not a manager, but you need take apart several windows and see what their made of before you say I don't know. Yes, I was wrong on a couple of statements and should not have said several things, but I was making a point, that most xyz windows rate their own windows and take measurements from the best part of the glass, instead of the center of the window. Seriously?! You do realize that the COG rating (center of glass) IS the most efficient point of a window assembly don't you? COG ratings are used by companies with inferior products to try and "trick" people into thinking that theirs is superior. The total unit rating is the REAL rating, and is what is found on the NFRC label... and btw, those ratings (and AAMA) are taken by independent third parties.

I was trying to make a statement, of why would anyone buy a Simonton Window for the same price as a Andersen Window? Why buy a triple pane vinyl window when you can spend a few dollars more and buy a Kolbe & Kolbe Triple Pane Window. Because it will last longer, perform better, and offer less maintenance. Why would any spend a $1100 for a window installed by Home Depot? I don't know. They shouldn't. When you can buy the top of the line Marvin Window and have installed for less. And why buy vinyl ''plastic'' window, when you can spend a few dollars more and get a real product. A "real" product that will be outperformed and outlasted by "plastic"??.... Again, they all have their pros and cons. Just quit the bs and be honest about it.

Its funny how all the vinyl companines state they have the best products, you have to read between the lines on the warranties to find out what your really getting and the all the gimmicks, you know because you use them.
Very true, just as EVERY manufacturer claims to have the BEST product. That is why it is incumbent upon dealers/installation companies to provide an honest assessment of each option. You might consider such an approach.
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Old 05-26-2011, 03:38 PM   #21
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How to choose new windows?


Stumbled upon this and thought it was too good not to share. People in the Toronto area have a whole month to redeem this excellent offer.
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Old 05-26-2011, 04:35 PM   #22
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Stumbled upon this and thought it was too good not to share. People in the Toronto area have a whole month to redeem this excellent offer.
This is the second ad we've removed from your posts, the next will result in a ban as a spammer.

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Old 05-15-2014, 12:07 PM   #23
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Emily,

You so need to break up your posts into smaller, more readable sections. It is VERY difficult to follow what you are saying when you have one longgggggggggg paragraph.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-4th-William-Strunk/dp/0205313426/"]Required reading[/ame].

My short few days looking into windows has brought a few points to my attention:

  • Know your models, and options. That good deal might be for a 5050 model instead of 5500, with 2.5mm glass instead of 3mm set into a cheap frame.
  • Understand your needs. Do you need security glass, low U-factor, or low-E? Would an Energy Star audit provide any value? Auditors aren't here to sell me anything, and could have good information for pre-purchase decisions.
  • Consider the style. I'm replacing double-hung windows with two casements and a picture. I have a chance here to change the colors, go with simulated wood grain or veneer, or whatnot. This changes the costs, but also allows development of better goals.


A window isn't just a plastic frame and a piece of glass. It's an insulating barrier, solar filter, sound dampener, forced entry risk, air seal, ventilation, visual element, and complex mechanical system. Consider all of these. Will it require excessive maintenance, or break down? Will it seal poorly? Does it need to open at all?

I'm eschewing window ACs and fans in favor of central air, so I've opted for more Casement windows lately.
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Old 05-15-2014, 12:49 PM   #24
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Very well said bluefox.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:06 PM   #25
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Very well said bluefox.
Not entirely. I messed up the list: "it's a ventilation" doesn't make sense.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:57 PM   #26
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Not entirely. I messed up the list: "it's a ventilation" doesn't make sense.
It does if you have an Italian accent
...The really funny thing is that this thread is three years old! Steven012 must have been doing some digging.

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