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Old 05-21-2012, 05:30 PM   #1
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


Hey all! I'm trying to find the answer to my question online, but haven't been able to, so thought I would reach out to the experts!

I had all of my windows (12) replaced about 2 years ago with a window instillation company that offers a 20 yr warranty on instillation and mechanical failure. Over the weekend I sprayed down a few of the window screens with the hose, as they were pretty dirty.

Upon opening the windows shortly after I noticed water pooling at the bottom of the frames, right by the screws that had been installed at the bottom corners of the windows. I moved some of the water around, and saw a bubble come out from one of the screws. This is the area in which water drans out, as there are drain holes on the fronts of the windows.

A few of the other windows had sediment around the bottom screws, which leads me to believe that water had collected there at one point, drained out, and left a small amount of dirt behind.

So my question is - are these screws improperly placed? Are these windows leaking water, rainwater, etc., and can that be determined by the placement of these screws?

I've currently emailed the company, and waiting a response, but wanted to get some opinions from the group first as to what I should/can/expect to demand of them.

Thanks in advance, pictures are linked below!

-Steve

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22667901@N03/7245025840
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22667901@N03/7245025934
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:34 PM   #2
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


yea..you can't put a screw there
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:42 PM   #3
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That's what I thought...

So now what?

Can these windows be salvaged & re-sealed, or should I demand all new windows because there is no saving these?
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:50 PM   #4
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


i don't see how you can fix it without removing it,even then it might not work or be worth it
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:51 PM   #5
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


The screws would def have to be removed - but then can the holes be jammed full of caulking to seal them back up?

Man - 12 windows...
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:58 PM   #6
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


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Originally Posted by SteveMcQueen View Post
.....that offers a 20 yr warranty on instillation and mechanical failure......[/URL]
Call them. Get together any of your records.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:17 PM   #7
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


That screw as placed may be directing water right into the rough opening and subsequently your wall. You could be in for some major problems, not the least of which is that the manufacturer's warranty is probably VOID due to improper installation. As Palibob mentioned, get your ducks in a row with your contract and documentation, because this could get ugly.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:20 PM   #8
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


Thank you very much for the advice Bob.

I just got off the phone with the company, the owner of which was VERY defensive. His feedback was:

1. This is where the typically place the instillation screws. When asked why some of my windows had them in this location, and other had them up higher in the frame (I assume that the 2 crews that worked on the house did things a little differently) he stated he didn't know.

2. He stated that there is a bead of silicon placed in the corner before the self tapping screw is inserted, which acts as the seal for the newly created hole.

3. When told about the bubble that appeared, he stated that he wasn't an expert on bubbles and didn't know what that meant. I explained it usually means that a liquid has displayed oxygen, and is forcing the air upwards - and that this means the water is going somewhere.

4. He stated that windows, because of their mechanical operation, aren't waterproof, and that even a little amount of water traveling down the screw should not be of alarm, and in fact a full cup of water traveling down the screw into the frame of the house would not be cause for alarm. I told him that I didn't purchase semi-sealed windows, I purchased fully sealed windows, and that his opinion on this matter greatly concerned me.

5. He stated that what I could do is remove the screw, add more silicone, and then re-drive the screw in place, ensuring a snug seal. Needless to say, I will not be touching anything in regards to these windows for fear of voiding the warranty.

So at this point I am documenting everything. I will be performing a test on the windows tonight, with an eyedropper, to see if I can get a small controlled amount of water to disappear around the screw.

I appreciate the advice - please keep it coming if you think there is a specific angle I need to take on this one.

-Steve
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:25 PM   #9
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


Steve, your next course of action should be to contact the manufacturer with these concerns. It is expressly against ALL manufacturer's install instructions, industry standards, and basic common sense that a screw should never be put through the sill. On top of it, he drove them right through the corner welds, which can crack in that circumstance.
The manufacturer is not going to fix your problems, but they will confirm that this install was not appropriate.
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:34 PM   #10
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HomeSealed -

Thank you so much for your input. What is the best way to go about finding documentation and/or getting an opinion on 'industry standard' in this situation? It's my understanding that this company makes all of their windows, so I don't think there is a manufacturer to reach out to.

As it currently stands, I am saying this is wrong, and the owner is saying that this is right, and that's where it's at. I am not afraid of sticking up for myself, but the more prepared I am with docs/testimonials/etc the more effective my conversations can be.

Thanks all
-Steve
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:23 PM   #11
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


One thing you could do is pull down PDFs of other manufacturers installation instructions. Also check THIS guys web site and see what his own instructions say.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:39 PM   #12
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I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if a company that is large enough to manufacturer its own windows would be owned by someone that would send such an unprofessional response (assuming that your quotes are verbatim). I'm guessing that they (the install company) pass it off that way, but purchase them elsewhere. If in fact they do manufacture the windows, you can present the installation instructions of every other manufacturer, consult trade organizations, etc.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:50 PM   #13
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


Quote:
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The screws would def have to be removed - but then can the holes be jammed full of caulking to seal them back up?

Man - 12 windows...

no,there a 2 walls,and the screw passes right though the weep channel you can't just caulk the top hole
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:44 AM   #14
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


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no,there a 2 walls,and the screw passes right though the weep channel you can't just caulk the top hole
What....but pocket sill windows don't let any water get by the primary seal on the exterior...

Just kidding of course.
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:35 PM   #15
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Help! Incorrect window instillation?


I can tell you exactly why those nuckleheads did what they did.

On single and double hung windows, the balancers ride right next to the sash. If you place the screw higher up then a 1/2 inch (typically) then the balancer will hit the screw and the window won't close.

The correct method of installation is to pre-drill a 3/8 hole 6 inches up on the sides and screw through the exterior wall of the window, since they are chambered and have two walls. At this location you don't have to worry about any water getting into the frame. Many higher end windows will even come with this hole pre-drilled from the factory.

Screws in the corner of the frames is a classic sign of Rookie installation. Or laziness.

Edit: Eh, I wouldn't feel completely uncomfortable sealing those holes up. You'd have to get some sealant down to the second hole on the outer wall as well, but they ARE pretty small holes. If they fill the heck out of them, they'll probably be ok. I HIGHLY doubt you're going to get the company to replace all those window frames without a HUGE headache on your part. If you can get them to come out and re-do the screws properly and seal up the holes, I think that's the most realistic expectation you can have.

If you want to get mean and nasty, you can maybe get them replaced, be ready to fight for it, though.

Last edited by Jkslate; 05-22-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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