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Old 03-04-2012, 02:31 PM   #31
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Front windows leaking


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usually it's a more fundamental screwup in basic lapping or shingling
I agree with screwup in flashing /window installation.

I know that my brick chimney...made of same pink chanmpagne brick...as front of house has had a problem with efflorescence.

Since the Siloxane product has been applied...those annoying white stains have not been back

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Old 03-04-2012, 02:42 PM   #32
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I have run a lot of water tests, but they are not conclusive unless the "veneer" or siding is removed.

Since over 60% of the windows installed on newer windows are not installed properly, I would bet on improperly installed windows in the entire house of the same crew did them all. - Flashing methods, care of installation, etc.

One other method is to find a moisture intrusion specialist or even a home inspector that has a professional moisture meter with the 4" or 5" long probes and poke a few 1/8" diameter holes on the inside. It is really not that intrusive and a pro can tell what is going on with a couple of probes since they know where to look. If you have fiberglass insulation you can get a good idea of the history also, since fiberglass does not dry out, but holds moisture for many, many years. Keep in mind that water usually migrates down, but can travel horizontally if it hits a header or plate. In mold/moisture investigation, you run across some strange installation caused problems.

The caulk is just a band-aid method to provide short tern protection.

Dick

Last edited by concretemasonry; 03-11-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:02 PM   #33
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usually it's a more fundamental screwup
"Usually" probably is an understatement.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:36 PM   #34
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Well, I took off the base board trim and found this:

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So I threw up the equivalent of the plastic tenting you find in ufo movies, helps respirator mask and cut open the drywall and found a lovely surprise after taking out the insulation which was soaked:


Front windows leaking-forumrunner_20120311_143232.jpg

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The osb that is supposed to be between the insulation and stone facing was either totally eroded or softer than a wet tissue. I had a Contractor over to replace the damage. Will post update when I get more time. the short of it is I'm getting new windows.

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Old 03-11-2012, 02:58 PM   #35
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dengle -

You can expect similar moisture, wet insulaltion that has to be tossed and replaced with something better anyhwere near other windows that the same hack installed. Have a few 1/8" moisture measurement holes poked before you go anywhere with the man that is anxious to get started. I would suspect other windows have the same problem, but has not shown up on the interior yet.

Dick
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:50 PM   #36
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I agree with Dick's comments. This is a problem on your other openings as well whether or not it has shown up yet or not.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:06 PM   #37
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I agree with Dick's comments. This is a problem on your other openings as well whether or not it has shown up yet or not.
+1

All of those windows need to be properly inspected in conjunction with these repairs.

Odds on favorite is that if they did these wrong, the others might be wrong.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:44 PM   #38
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Good luck with this issue. Contact your homeowners insurance. Most policies have a mold/mildrew rider.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:38 PM   #39
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dengle -
I think from now on, just call me Tom Hanks as I'm living "The Money Pit"

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You can expect similar moisture, wet insulaltion that has to be tossed and replaced with something better anyhwere near other windows that the same hack installed. Have a few 1/8" moisture measurement holes poked before you go anywhere with the man that is anxious to get started.
I am (or rather my wife) the one who is anxious to get started, admittedly. Very sound advice, however. With all of the lousy construction practices that i can see now that I've moved into the house (it's always that way it seems) I am considering everything done poorly/incorrectly.

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I would suspect other windows have the same problem, but has not shown up on the interior yet.

Dick
i hope that these two windows are the only ones with this issue as they are the only ones installed with stone facing. We shall see. I'll either pick up a cheap tester myself or have the contractor do it. With all of the issues I run into here, having a tester on-hand would probably be a good idea. I saw a few posts on a home inspector forum that stated a few brands available on Ebay that are cheap and still read very close to the really expensive ones.


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Good luck with this issue. Contact your homeowners insurance. Most policies have a mold/mildrew rider.
Many insurance companies have clauses in it to exclude anything caused by repeated water damage such as an improperly installed windows or some other construction defect. My policy is unfortunately one of those so I'm out of luck.

Even if all or even some of the windows test positive for water, we don't have the funds to tackle them all at once other than a band-aid or two (i.e. caulk the #$@! out of them and hope it stops it until we get enough to fix it).

As to the continuation of what happened so far, The contractor came and planned on just opening the walls to verify the source of the water and fix whatever damage including bleaching/concrobium(sp?) the mold.

Here's some pictures of the damage now that it's exposed more:
obvious signs of water which was dripping down the sides of the window framing and getting under the wood window sill. Wood looks sturdy until you look underneath. The two under studs are totally spongy which the window would have to be removed to replace properly. That's why we just opted to get new windows. The whole framing will have to be redone anyway as we're switching to a bay window.
Front windows leaking-2012-03-10_windowframingrotted.jpg
A bigger section of drywall removed. All areas under the entire window have rotted and the water was traveling along the osb flooring even further past. Ugh
Front windows leaking-2012-03-10_10-40-49_389.jpg
Water hitting the top, most likely from the window upstairs as that had similar (but not as bad) water damage.
Front windows leaking-2012-03-10_11-56-24_42.jpg
I think this is one of the faulty designs. The window is sitting on this plastic which then went in front of the osb which is good, but it ended halfway down with on means of the water escaping which i think is just a wee bit of a bad design? I gather that plastic sheathing should have continued down and or been tied into some system to allow the water to escape?

Front windows leaking-2012-03-10_plastic_barrier-just-ends.jpg
Unfortunately, it shrank a lot due to the auto reformatting, but what is that vertical double-piece of OSB called that the arrow is pointing to and what is it's purpose? Is it used to support anything or just to cover/seal something? That had a fair amount of damage.

Front windows leaking-2012-03-10_rottedsubfloorremoved.jpg
Anyway, that's why new windows are in the works. Well, that and the windows are horrible and it's a good opportunity to upgrade.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:09 PM   #40
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rim board and important with your joist system

http://www.woodbywy.com/floors/f_Tim..._rimboard.aspx
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:51 PM   #41
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dengle -

A good tester is not cheap plus you have to know how to use it and where to test. You need a $400-$500 (minimum) moisture meter with the extra long probes unless you just want to tear things apart to get an idea of what you are facing.

Since you did not post your location, what part of the world are you in and what is the climate?

Dick

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Old 03-12-2012, 05:24 AM   #42
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I thought I posted initially but that was 5 pages ago I'm in southeast Pa. About 30 minutes west of Philadelphia.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:49 AM   #43
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dengle -

A good tester is not cheap plus you have to know how to use it and where to test.
I would shelve the tester idea.

Do this:
Slice probative square holes in the drywall.
But only slice on 3 sides of the square(both sides and the bottom)
Slice on a 30 degree angle. This way you can "fold" the flap of drywall up, do your inspection, fold the piece of drywall back down if everything checks OK
Mudding over the repair is a lot easier.

Kind of like the attached photo but imagine that the top cut in the photo is still intact.
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Front windows leaking-fh05jau_drywal_10.jpg  

Last edited by hammerlane; 03-12-2012 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:58 AM   #44
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dengle: besides this portion of your home being stone veneer, is the rest of the home vinyl sided?

Hopefully your only problem windows are isolated to the two on the stone veneer. Let us know.
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:01 AM   #45
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Correct. The only windows that seem to have issues are those front two which is the only area with stone facing. I did take the moulding off on another room under its window and no issues were seen. no signs of water on the subfloor or under in the basement. I'm putting wainscoting in under the one window so will cut open the drywall under the window before I finish that up for inspection. hopefully a different team installed the windows on the areas with siding.

The only other window that may be a concern is a small side window in the second floor bathroom where the external caulk separated and was just re caulked. that one scares me as the tub is a one piece surround.

-Dan


Last edited by dengle; 03-12-2012 at 08:06 AM.
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