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Old 01-03-2012, 02:19 PM   #1
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Existing Window Installation


How would I go about fixing this window problem?

I'm guessing that the window is a replacement type window since there is no jamb or sill. Company is no longer in business so I can't ask them.

Not sure if visible from the uploaded picture. Why would the plastic section just above the sill slant inwards towards the window? Shouldn't the window drain water away from the window, not towards it? I'm guessing that there are weep holes somewhere in the frame and water would leak out between the that odd frame piece and the sill.


Secondly, the sill does not extend beyond the exterior casing. Any water shedding off the sill goes between the sill and the casing.

Seems to me that the windows were installed incorrectly.

Existing Window Installation-img_0455a.jpg

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Old 01-03-2012, 05:13 PM   #2
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In theory, they may have been installed "correctly" but the water detailing is bunk.

The sill in the replacement window (appears to be a slider so it is likely a pocket sill) should be sloped if it was a double hung (ideally sloped) and that is what creates positive drainage.

Identify what type of window it is and a close up of the sill will be a bit more helpful. If it is a pocket sill type window, those weep holes better be exposed and drain to outside.

Capping over the sill with a piece of bronze coils should help shed the water to outside the casing. You can also make your own 1 piece sloped sill out of wood and remove the stuff that is there in lieu of it.

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Old 01-04-2012, 07:03 PM   #3
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WW,

I know it must be done and I'm dreading the day I start pulling the windows to see how they were installed. I do suspect some type of water damage that will need repairing.

The windows are double pane double hung. The is no built-in (to the window) exterior sill. The window is sitting on a stained 1x4 that acts as the sill. The 1x4 does slope to the outside. One problem is that the sill does not go over the bottom casing. Water drains between the sill and the casing.

If these are replacement windows, what is the best way to correct the sill issue? Remove the existing wood sill and install a new one that extends over the bottom casing?

Here is another view.

Existing Window Installation-img_0456.jpg
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:17 PM   #4
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It looks like someone tryed using flat jamb or replacement windows. Wrong window to start with. The sill should have been installed first and the window would sit on top of it if they were doing it with these.
Now you stuck have to install sills that will only butt up againt the bottom of the window frames.
They make Fir and vinyl sills that would work. They would just have to be cut to fit.
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Old 01-04-2012, 07:36 PM   #5
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Joe,

I do agree that the windows are replacement type. Since there was no existing frame, an attempt was made to make one.

I'll check your fir sill sugestion.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:06 PM   #6
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You would be far better off with vinyl, no rot ever.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:43 AM   #7
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That is an odd looking install but I guess it takes all kinds. I think you need to just do some explorative work first and see what you are working with at the different levels. Perhaps a picture from further back would also help with the full view and trim tie in.

+1 on going with PVC (azek, etc) boards where you can. Obviously with an unfinished or stained wood, that is impossible but save yourself the headache whenever possible.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:04 PM   #8
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Here are two additional pictures. Hope they explain a bit more of my problem.


Existing Window Installation-img_0459.jpg



Existing Window Installation-img_0461.jpg


From what I can tell by exterior visual inspection, the window sits in a 2x6 wood frame. I suspect screws were used to secure the window to the frame.

The real odd part is the vinly strip that sits on the wood sill. It has a channel that angles back towards the window. Not sure why you would want to channel water into a window. If rain water does get into the channel, it leaks out between the bottom of the vinyl strip and the top of the wood sill. Again, you can see that the sill does not extend past the casing.

From the information I have, the windows were manufactured by a company called New Outlook Windows. I believe they are no longer in business.
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:28 AM   #9
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Here is an update to what I have discovered.


This picture shows the sill with the filler/sill expander removed.

Existing Window Installation-img_0482.jpg



Sill expander partically removed.

Existing Window Installation-img_0484.jpg



Edge view of sill expander.

Existing Window Installation-img_0485.jpg


Does this piece of plastic look like it belongs under the window? Don't understand why the top section angles back towards the window. Shouldn't water drain away from the window. Also, the back side of the filler was pushed tight against the weep hole flaps.

Last edited by Earnie; 02-20-2012 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:28 AM   #10
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Whoever put in those windows fell asleep during water management 101.

I am not sure what they would have intended for that piece but it is certainly, as you suspected, be used improperly in this case.

Well done for doing some investigation on your own and getting your hands dirty. You probably saved all your sheathing and structure from rotting out years down the road.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:28 AM   #11
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I think there was a lot of sleep going on when the windows were installed.

Any ideas how I can correct the problem? I probably won't be reusing that plastic piece. How could I fill the gap under the window?

New sills will be installed to go beyond the exterior trim. To plug the bug holes where the wood recesses (area with chinking), I plan to cut a kerf and install coil stock. Similar to this video:

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Old 02-21-2012, 06:13 AM   #12
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Since I have to re-build the sills, what would be a good degree angle for the new ones? I've read that 14 degrees is usually the maximum.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:23 AM   #13
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14 is more than enough.

The gap between the bottom would normally be filled with a sill expander (small clip in piece that attaches to the bottom of the frame to seal off the gap).

Good video but does not have much application in your case given the different frame types now.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:53 AM   #14
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I checked an existing sill with a carpenter's square. Appears to be 11 degrees (3/8" height at 2" mark on the square).

I'm guessing that the plastic piece in the picture was an attempt to fill the gap. Any ideas on what I could use to fill the gap since there is no manufacturer provided sill expander? Something will have to be fabricated.

Yes, the video was more for new construction windows with nailing flange. It did give me a good method seal up the log gaps using the metal flashing.l
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:48 PM   #15
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There is no clip for a sill expander so backer rod and a well tooled bead of sealant is your best bet.

I would spray foam that void space as well but practice first. You don't want to learn on that application with the spray foam.

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