Concave Pella Windows melting my siding! PICS

**kwikfishron** · 11-10-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPS-1

Seems like a window issue to me. But the window manufacturer isn't going to admit it. I am sure there are ways to keep the glass flatter --- thicker glass, spacers between the glass,....

That’s how I see it. The glass isn’t concave by design. The window manufactures are walking on eggshells right now. If they offer solutions like films or whatnot then they’re admitting liability.

This reminds me of after years of installing LP siding and then one day with each delivery we start receiving literature on sealing all cuts and the ugly butt joint protectors were automatically delivered with the siding. You know how that all ended up.

People with this problem should be documenting everything. I sure there will be payback someday, even if it is ten or fifteen years down the road.

joecaption · 11-10-2012, 07:05 PM

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...t-vinyl-siding

**kwikfishron** · 11-10-2012, 07:22 PM

Already posted that link Joe but it’s about as good of an explanation as I’ve seen.

I really haven’t seen any “new developments” on this issue in a couple of years other than more complaining…Just no solutions.

**Gary in WA** · 11-10-2012, 07:23 PM

I was very surprised the first time I read about it. Posted these links on this forum almost 2 years ago; http://www.inspectorsjournal.com/for...?TOPIC_ID=4223

http://www.wcnc.com/on-tv/Melting-Vi...-83583357.html

Vinyl is final....

Gary

**kwikfishron** · 11-10-2012, 07:39 PM

,,,,,

jjjdiy · 11-11-2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fix'n it

how about a different siding. and/or some trees/bushes.

Good idea, and that helps block the reflection from my West windows onto my neighbor's house to the West, but the reflections damaging my siding are coming from second story windows on my Eastern neighbor's house. There is no practical way to block the reflection with plants or fences.

I think placing a screen or a window film makes the most sense.

Anyone have experience with non-reflective external window films?

oberon · 11-11-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windows on Wash

I have personally observed this on several homes in this area on adjacent garage walls.

First thing would be to get a window that was not concave. After that, you can attempt any of the following:

Put the low-e on surface 3 vs. surface 2
Get a solar control film on the outside surface
Specify internal mini blinds
Obscure glass
Skip the Low-e

Paging Oberon......

I couldn't put it any better than Martin did in his Green Building Advisor article.

Interesting suggestions! I would strongly suspect that people who are working on this issue (and I also suspect that there are some very smart and very experienced people working on this issue), have looked at all of them as well as the other ideas that have been part of this thread.

oberon · 11-11-2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjdiy

Good idea, and that helps block the reflection from my West windows onto my neighbor's house to the West, but the reflections damaging my siding are coming from second story windows on my Eastern neighbor's house. There is no practical way to block the reflection with plants or fences.

I think placing a screen or a window film makes the most sense.

Anyone have experience with non-reflective external window films?

There are anti reflective coatings for glass that are used primarily in electronic applications, but they are very expensive (and fragile), but I don't know of any anti-reflective coatings that are available on films.

I can see the potential for some very serious problems if someone were to put an anti-refletive coating on glass surface 1 of a window that had a reflective LowE coating on surface 2.

oberon · 11-11-2012, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPS-1

Seems like a window issue to me. But the window manufacturer isn't going to admit it. I am sure there are ways to keep the glass flatter --- thicker glass, spacers between the glass,....)
But since your siding is toast anyways (might be a poor choice of words), the easiest solution might be to replace your siding with something that can take the heat.

oops, double post

oberon · 11-11-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPS-1

Seems like a window issue to me. But the window manufacturer isn't going to admit it. I am sure there are ways to keep the glass flatter --- thicker glass, spacers between the glass,....)
But since your siding is toast anyways (might be a poor choice of words), the easiest solution might be to replace your siding with something that can take the heat.

Glass is flat when it comes from the factory. Add it to a window and then install it in a home where you going to have changes in altitude, changes in barometric pressure, changes in temperature, then add wind and sun and the glass is going to move. It's going to bow in and it's going to bow out. This is window physics 101 and no one is going to change that part of the equation.

SPS-1 · 11-11-2012, 12:53 PM

All materials deflect when a force is put on them. A dual plane window has a sealed gas in between the two panes. When the outdoor air pressure increases, the glass wants to bow inward. But there are ways to limit the movement. Thicker glass will bow less. And if you have a spacer bewteen the two planes of glass, that will also limit how far the glass can deflect.

Thats Engineering 101.

And that is only what I came up with in 10 minutes. I am sure the window designers have better ideas than these. But when they fix the problem, they are effectively admitting they had a problem with their windows, and open themselves up to the possibility of have to replace the siding on hundreds (or more) houses.

Fix'n it · 11-11-2012, 08:31 PM

how close together do these house need to be, to have this issue ?

jjjdiy · 11-12-2012, 10:49 AM

I haven't measured the distance but here is what it looks like. In the evening, the sun is in the West and shines on my neighbor's second story windows, reflecting a concentrating beam of energy onto my siding.

On the West side of my house, the evening sun hits my two concave Pella windows and melts my neighbor's siding. The one window can barely be seen in this photo as it's hidden behind the sandcherry...

Windows on Wash · 11-12-2012, 11:53 AM

Distance is less of a deciding factor as is angle and focus location.

You can burn something from a good distance away if you focus it properly and at the right spot.

jjjdiy · 11-12-2012, 11:59 AM

Thanks for all of the information and replies.

It seems that my best option probably IS to use screens on the offending windows. Now, to my original question....

What is the best way to attach external screens to the upper portion of the single hung windows? These are vinyl windows, BTW.

Concave Pella Windows melting my siding! **PICS**