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Old 08-17-2012, 11:19 AM   #1
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


Greetings,

I have recently replaced 4 sliding patio doors in my 3 season (3 wall) addition. The old 20+ year ones were rotted at the bottoms and well in need of replacement. I replaced them with Pella "finned" vinyl doors.

The fins attach to the RO framing, and then a 6" water and ice shield is laid over the fins/fasteners. One on each side, and one on top overlapping the side ones.

I am at the point where I need to trim them out with brickmold. I am using AZEK brickmold.

The doors frames are manufactured in such a manner that they have what looks like residual casing tabs on the corners. I presume these are from the manufacturing process. See attached pics.

My question is: What is the best way to trim/brickmold these doors? The brickmold will not sit flush against the verticals and top with these tabs in the way. There is a small gap between the frame and the brickmold if it tries to sit flush against the door frame.

I have considered notching the brickmold, but I was hoping to avoid that. I have to make glued miters at the top on both sides, and the lower end will extend about 3.5 inches below the bottom of the frame to cover the ends of the threshold support. Notching would complicate things. I have also thought of cutting/grinding the tabs flush being careful not to compromise the integrity of the cladding.

Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks.

P.../NH
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement-door-trim1.jpg   Azek brickmold on patio door replacement-door-trim2.jpg  

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Old 08-17-2012, 11:57 AM   #2
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


Just cut that little tit off with a razor knife and a new blade. I won’t hurt anything, I do it all the time.

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Old 08-17-2012, 12:50 PM   #3
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


Yep sharp razor, shave alittle at a time.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:51 PM   #4
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


I would run a kick board to the outside of the brick and stop the brick on top of the kick.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:37 PM   #5
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


I also see where someone attched the ledger board up tight to the rim joist then cut the decking so it's tight to the wall, a big no no.
Your going to have to add some waterproofing on that wall and a great idea would be to add a piece of Vinyl lumber under that threshold all the way to the deck boards. It will help keep water out, will keep the threshold in place, keeps the siding from being damage when somone kicks dirt off there shoes.

Did you set the new door in a sill pan so it would prevent it from ever rotting out under it again?
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:32 PM   #6
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


Folks, thank you all for your input. I will be trimming the tabs off.

Hammer & Joe, A little history.

I have 4 of these doors going in on 3 walls. See added pics. I was not sure of the construction of the building to begin with. One wall (the one that is mentioned in the first post) has the sheathing flush to to the rim joist (not over it). The other 2 walls have the sheathing OVER the rims. I am including a few more pictures so you can see what I am dealing with.

Originally, under the old wooden doors, there was a piece of 2x8 PT for a kick that ran from the bottom of each door threshold, to the top of the decking. It was only as wide as the door threshold. This gave support for the door bottom.

When I went to install the new doors on two of the walls, I noticed that there was a 1/2" gap between the bottom fin of the door and the rim joist. On the top and both sides the fin sat flush. So I had to put a piece of 12" PT ply under the door so all four sides were fastenable. So in short, one wall does not need the 1/2" PT plywood.

OK. What I was going to do originally, was get a piece of 2x8 Azek and put it under the thresholds of each door from the door to the deck. (Just like the old PT that was originally there). I was advised against this by my local lumber yard. They said that AZEK is not meant for structural/load bearing purposes. Actually, I think the AZEK web site says this as well. So that is why I am thinking on putting a PT 2x4 under instead. If I do this, I could run it 2" wider on each side and as Joe says, have the brick land on TOP of the support. Or as I was thinking above, make the support exactly as wide as the door, and run the brick to the bottom of the support. I'm not sure what to do.

As far as a sill pan, I did not use one (didn't know what it was). I installed the doors according to the Pella instructions that came with the doors. As far as the sill is concerned, they call for two layers of 6" water and ice shield, run 6" up the RO on each side.

As far as the deck butting to the rim goes. I noticed there is dripedge installed on top of the ledger and under the decking on all sides. Good or bad, it's there.

I guess I'll defer to the pros on this forum as to what I should do for the door supports so I can get going again on this project. I really need to get the project finished. As an aside, I am planning on replacing the corner posts with AZEK while I have the siding off. I am going to re-use whatever good siding I have, and supplement with new where needed.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

Paul.../NH
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement-add2small.jpg   Azek brickmold on patio door replacement-rim-detail1.jpg   Azek brickmold on patio door replacement-rim-detail-2.jpg  
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:55 PM   #7
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


I see builders all the time trying to use 2X material under thresholds.
Huge mistake. It sticks out to far and acts like a funnel to direct water under threshold.

As far as you thinking it's not a good idea to use vinyl, it's not structural when used the way I suggest. It can not move because it's in direct contact with the deck. I've done dozens of then and use SS trim head screws to attch it and never had one move or bow even many years later.

Not sure what your thinking was in using PT plywood and not even setting it so it was under the threshold to support it. Where it's placed is doing 0 good.
It looks like you used the plywood to shim out the doors nailing fin, but adding nothing to support the threshold were it over hangs.
Now your going to have to deal with how to cover it up. If you used vinyl all you had to do was add J moulding on the ends and side up to the J.
PT plywood also tends to delamiite on the ends and soak up water like a sponge.

Last edited by joecaption; 08-18-2012 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:37 PM   #8
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


Listen to Joe!
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Old 08-18-2012, 05:13 PM   #9
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


That whole scenario is a mess and is doomed for failure.

Let me guess, I’ll bet the entire addition is built on top of the existing deck. Please correct me if I’m wrong and I hope I am.

That plywood the sliders are attached to should be running way down below the decking with a weather barrier over the plywood and under the nail fin and the deck ledger should be attached to it (assuming there's anything structual there to attach actually the ledger too).

Then Z flashing over the ledger and up a couple of inches above the decking.

Then your sticky tape followed with the wrb both over under the fin on the slider and the non- existent door pan and over the flashing with the decking stopping about a 1/4" short of touching anything.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:32 PM   #10
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


Lets have look one at a time. Joe first:

Quote:
I see builders all the time trying to use 2X material under thresholds.
Huge mistake. It sticks out to far and acts like a funnel to direct water under threshold.
Ok I learned. It was what was already there.

Quote:
As far as you thinking it's not a good idea to use vinyl, it's not structural when used the way I suggest. It can not move because it's in direct contact with the deck.
I originally was going to do this, but based on the "not structural" comments, I didn't (yet). I can clearly see where the piece would be in "compression" all the time. But the folks I talked to said that it would be unstable because of heat and possibly expansion/contraction. I understand that the exp/cont rate is very low.

Quote:
I've done dozens of then and use SS trim head screws to attch it and never had one move or bow even many years later.
Will take your advice.

Quote:
Not sure what your thinking was in using PT plywood and not even setting it so it was under the threshold to support it. Where it's placed is doing 0 good. It looks like you used the plywood to shim out the doors nailing fin, but adding nothing to support the threshold were it over hangs.
Yes it was for a spacer. As mentioned above I was planning on putting a 2x8 PT under there, but based on your advice now will work with Azek or vinyl.

Thanks.

Paul../NH
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:50 PM   #11
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


Kwikfishron,

The addition is not built on the deck. The addition is 20 x 12 without the deck. The deck was added on after the addition was built.

There is an approx 20' ledger board on the house, then 6 feet out an approx 20 foot PT built up (glued and nailed) beam, that sits on 4 5-foot deep 10" cement columns. There are short PT support posts on each of the cement columns supporting the beam. There is no wood to ground, or wood to cement contact.

Then another 6 feet out a repeat of the previous beam, posts, and columns. It appears to be very well supported.

There is a ledger board on the perimeter of the addition that the deck sections attach to. There are several more cement columns supporting the deck framing.

Thanks..

Paul.../NH
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:51 AM   #12
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Azek brickmold on patio door replacement


Thanks for clarifying that, you’d be surprised how many rooms I’ve seen like yours that were built on top of a deck and your pictures kind of make it look that way.

After a closer look I can now see what appears to be corroded flashing that just barely sticks up above the decking in your 3rd pic in post #6.

What needs to happen (and this is a critical detail) is the Tyvek and the Grace need be on the same plane and overlapping the top of the flashing. The purpose of the flashing is give any moister that gets behind the siding a place to escape and shed away from the building. The way your set up now this is not happening and moister can freely get to and be trapped against the rim of the addition.

I’m really surprised the rim joist of the addition isn’t rotted out but I can guarantee you that it will in the future and now is the perfect time to correct the original mistakes that were made since you have everything opened up.

Just so I’m understanding this correctly, the rim of the addition is sitting on top of and is flush to the beam below and the deck ledger is attached to the beam supporting the addition? Do the deck joist all run the same direction, perpendicular to the house and the long wall of the addition?

I guess the bigger question is, do you want to and are you willing to correct this now? If so it would be pretty easy to walk you through it, if not, then…..

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Last edited by kwikfishron; 08-19-2012 at 04:58 AM.
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