Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Insulation

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-14-2013, 11:33 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Regina, Canada
Posts: 16
Share |
Default

Cold floors


We have very cold floors on the main floor of our bungalow. I am thinking that we need to insulate the rim joists so we plan to spray foam the whole basement. When they built the house they wedged pieces of wood into the rim joists. I kinda think it was eithor so it looked better or they thought it might slow down the drafts. The house was built in 1964. We tried to pull one piece out but it would take forever to get even half of them out.

My questions are...

If we spray foam will it keep the walls and just a smaller bit of the floor cold? Is there something else we should be doing first? Could it possibly be worthwhile to spend the rest of the winter chopping up the fir wooden pieces?

Not sure if it is pertinent but I have heard that if you have lots of spiders hanging around areas outside your house then that is probably where you have an air leak. At the top of our parging we have spiders pretty much all around our house.
Gloria02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 01:51 AM   #2
JOATMON
 
ddawg16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: S. California
Posts: 6,193
Default

Cold floors


Confirm you have a crawl space?

If so, insulating the rim joists will not solve the problem....you have to insulate the space between the floor joists.

I'm on the final stages of a 2-story addition....as part of it, I had to insulate the floor on the crawl space area....what a difference. Even though I don't have the heat turned on to that part of the addition...the 1st floor room is staying surprisingly warm.

Insulate that floor.
__________________
"The dream is free but the hustle is sold separately."

My
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ddawg16 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 06:35 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 24,448
Default

Cold floors


Got a picture of these "wedges"?
In your zone there should have been at least R-25 under that floor.
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 10:54 AM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Regina, Canada
Posts: 16
Default

Cold floors


Hopefully the pic is attached now, lol. Wedges was probably the wrong term. I should have said they put blocking in between the joists. They are a very tight fit.

There is an addition just in the front part of the house. We have taken it all apart and put down a vapor barrier over the dirt as well as generously spray foamed the outside walls of the crawl space. I went in afterward and put some spray foam on the under side of the floor. It is a very thin layer as it was falling off in small clumps. After I did this I saw a Holmes episode where he did everything we did except to insulate the floor he used fibreglass insulation with a breathable vapor barrier. I wish I had done that. There is a door to get into the crawl space but it is spray foamed shut and I hate to cut it out. The floor is much warmer in that area but not as warm as it should be IMHO. (We had the floor torn up)
Attached Thumbnails
Cold floors-image-322889967.jpg  
Gloria02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 11:53 AM   #5
Exterior Construction
 
Windows on Wash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: VA, MD, DC
Posts: 5,043
Default

Cold floors


Is there any conditioned air being diverted in there?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Windows on Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 12:38 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Regina, Canada
Posts: 16
Default

Cold floors


No there is no conditioned air, it is just an open gutted basement. Previously there was a closet where you can see a couple of open studs. But the whole perimeter of the house has cold floors. Every single outside wall for about 3 feet into the room. In the summer time you can see all kinds of spiders living at the top of the parging. I have heard that that is a sure sign of warm air escaping.
Attached Thumbnails
Cold floors-image-518590629.jpg  
Gloria02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 01:22 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Regina, Canada
Posts: 16
Default

Cold floors


I think I know what the major problem is.... Not sure why it didn't come to me before as we found this when we had to re do the gyproc in the living room. They put a very thin vapor barrier on the walls and did not quite reach the floor with it.

We are laying laminate flooring in the bedroom and I can feel the cool air coming in when I put my fingers in that space covered by the baseboards! Will spray foaming the basement help with this or should I spray foam before putting on the baseboards.
Gloria02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 01:35 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 24,448
Default

Cold floors


A better name for what your calling wedges would be blocking.
Most of the time when I see this is when there's be water or insect damage and there trying to support the subflooring where there's damaged wood.
The common way to seal rim joist is with 2" thick blue foam and foam to fill any gaps.
There's several reasons you may be feeling cold air.
No ones ever air sealed that basement. Any place where plumbing or wiring was run through the bottom plates the cold air in the basement can get into the walls.
On the outside if the sheathing was not run down below the foundation by at least an inch air can get in.
Not enough insulation in the walls.
No house wrap under the siding.

Those 2 X 2 on the walls are useless, may as well get rid of them, not the right way to finish out a basement.
__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions

Last edited by joecaption; 12-15-2013 at 02:09 PM.
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2013, 02:04 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,869
Default

Cold floors


SPF will stop the drafts from the basement rim areas to the walls above unless the walls are ventilated (holes made in sheathing). The rims should be either SPF or foil-faced foam board/canned foam; How to insulate rim joists simply

Your blocking may be required to keep the joists from over-turning as in the U.S. if no band (rim) joist was used; http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...9_5_par028.htm

Spiders do like air movement to catch insects in their webs, a sure sign of air infiltration/exfiltration.

The poly should have been sealed to the floor/bottom of wall plate to stop interior moisture getting in cavity.

You could insulate the floor; treating the basement as a non-conditioned space or not- your choice. It appears dry (could be due to air movement there), have you had the drywall/gyproc removed for a long time?

Is the furnace/water heater down there- gas appliances?

Gary
__________________
Clothes taking longer to dry?
Clean the dryer screen in HOT water if using fabric softener sheets.
They leave a residue that impedes air-flow, costing you money.
Clean the ducting in the last six months? 17,000 dryer fires annually!

Last edited by Gary in WA; 12-15-2013 at 02:06 PM. Reason: sp
Gary in WA is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Gary in WA For This Useful Post:
Windows on Wash (12-15-2013)
Old 12-15-2013, 03:58 PM   #10
Exterior Construction
 
Windows on Wash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: VA, MD, DC
Posts: 5,043
Default

Cold floors


+1

Spiders are natures air leakage indicators.

Seal up the ribbon/band boards and stop that loss/gain of outside air.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Windows on Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 08:56 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Regina, Canada
Posts: 16
Default

Cold floors


I'll try to answer all the questions so far...

We don't have quite all the wall board off as of yet. The furnace and water heater are in the laundry room, which is still boarded in. The 2 x 2's will be taken out, we just haven't gotton that far yet.

We do plan on spray foaming all the outside walls. That should be just as good as putting up the xps shouldn't it???

I don't have a problem doing it individually if that is better but if it will be just as good to spray it sure seems a whole lot easier.

Sorry if I missed any questions, but I really appreciate all the input.
Gloria02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 08:58 PM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Regina, Canada
Posts: 16
Default

Cold floors


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gloria02
I'll try to answer all the questions so far... We don't have quite all the wall board off as of yet. The furnace and water heater are in the laundry room, which is still boarded in. The 2 x 2's will be taken out, we just haven't gotton that far yet. We do plan on spray foaming all the outside walls. That should be just as good as putting up the xps shouldn't it??? I don't have a problem doing it individually if that is better but if it will be just as good to spray it sure seems a whole lot easier. Sorry if I missed any questions, but I really appreciate all the input.
The poly behind the walls on the main floor was cut off short of the floor. I'm thinking of spraying that great stuff behind the baseboards.
Gloria02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2013, 09:51 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,254
Default

Cold floors


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gloria02 View Post
We are laying laminate flooring in the bedroom and I can feel the cool air coming in when I put my fingers in that space covered by the baseboards!
Being cooler air tends to seek a lower elevation I suspect the air you are feeling near the baseboards is coming from the attic.
Fairview is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2013, 04:40 PM   #14
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Regina, Canada
Posts: 16
Default

Cold floors


Coming from the attic???

We worked in the attic most of the summer. There was no poly over any of the walls or light fixtures. I spent days and days in the attic taping poly then we took out one layer of fibreglass insulation (leaving one layer) and had a company come in and blow in enough to equal R-50. We have gable ends. But I do notice that the snow is still not staying on our roof the way I think it should. Hubby thinks the wind is just blowing it off, but that is another story.

After all this, how can the air be coming from the attic?
Gloria02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2013, 08:58 PM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,869
Default

Cold floors


I doubt the cold air is coming from the attic as in a heated house- the warm air goes to the attic from the natural/mechanical "stack effect" from pressure/temperature differences; http://www.wag-aic.org/1999/WAG_99_baker.pdf

The air is outside air because your vapor/air barrier was short of reaching the floor. You have holes/gaps in the wall sheathing with cold air flowing through your air-permeable fibrous insulation- fiberglass/rock wool/cellulose.Spraying canned foam may not solve the problem because the air barrier has been compromised (the drywall was short and not caulked, the baseboard was not caulked to the wall/floor). http://www.homeenergy.org/show/artic...page/2/id/1360

Cut/replace the drywall leaving the poly intact and add more poly. AIR-tight, same with the new drywall; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/

Under our new energy requirements we need to air seal all the drywall/floor joint, plate to floor, especially at knee walls in attic;http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...002_par022.htm

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...ce4_par035.htm

http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/ic...ce4_par040.htm

Gary
__________________
Clothes taking longer to dry?
Clean the dryer screen in HOT water if using fabric softener sheets.
They leave a residue that impedes air-flow, costing you money.
Clean the ducting in the last six months? 17,000 dryer fires annually!

Last edited by Gary in WA; 12-19-2013 at 09:02 PM. Reason: sp
Gary in WA is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to Recoat (Sandless Refinish) Hardwood Floors RhodesHardwood How To Guides 11 03-12-2014 11:42 PM
stone cold floors and room next to garage 4just1don Insulation 1 03-05-2012 07:51 AM
Hot Water Turning Cold - Could it be the washer/dryer? kissiffer4 Plumbing 3 01-28-2010 04:47 PM
Pluming Hot Water Turning Cold - Help! kissiffer4 Off Topic 1 01-14-2010 05:00 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.