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-   -   Closed Cell spray foam kits (http://www.diychatroom.com/f103/closed-cell-spray-foam-kits-128801/)

jimleahman 01-04-2012 05:03 PM

Closed Cell spray foam kits
 
Hello Everybody,

I live about a mile or two from the pacific ocean in Southern California.

My house was built in the 1950's with no crawl space insulation. In the winters, the floor gets mighty cold and recently found that moisture is creepy up in between the gaps in the original hardwood.

My crawl space is vented. I want to purchase a DIY polyurethane closed foam kit online with a anti-microbial additive to resist mold growth.

Would this project be difficult for a weekend amateur to tackle?

I am also worried about the toxic fumes the foam will admit while curing. I have two young kids at home. Do you recommend I aerate the home after the insulation job?

Thanks.

AGWhitehouse 01-04-2012 05:33 PM

I recommend to have a professional come and price/do it. Closed cell foams are very sensative to a variety of factors (installed thickness per pass**, ambient temperature, surface humidity, ambient humidity, etc.). There is an off-gasing associated with the installation process and full resperator gear is necessary.

**: Installing closed cell foam in lifts greater than 2" can cause permanent damage to the insulation system and has actually resulted in a death from excess heat within the foam igniting the system.

I've always considered the DIY kits good for rim joist or small area foaming jobs. An entire floor system is an intense job.

ptarmigan61 01-04-2012 07:11 PM

I did the underside of our cottage floor myself (had to; we are water access and it was going to be an expensive bear to get someone out on a rented barge to do it).
I would not recommend it to a weekend warrior unless said warrior had experience with spraying, had all the gear, and was failry experienced generally in DIY.

As has been said, it requires special PPE, and has to applied properly and at the right temperatures. Ours turned out well, but I am a marine engneeer, have used a variety of spraying equipment, and was able to use as directed. It was tiring, though, and it's easy to do wrong especially when doing a large area and/or spraying overhead.

JMHO

jimleahman 01-04-2012 08:27 PM

good advice
 
thank you both for the reply. :thumbsup:

i will heed the advice and hire a professional.

does anyone have an idea what the average cost would be for 1200 square feet at one inch thick?

does anyone have a recommendation in the southern california area?

thanks again.

cbaur88 01-05-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimleahman (Post 812454)
Hello Everybody,

I live about a mile or two from the pacific ocean in Southern California.

My house was built in the 1950's with no crawl space insulation. In the winters, the floor gets mighty cold and recently found that moisture is creepy up in between the gaps in the original hardwood.

My crawl space is vented. I want to purchase a DIY polyurethane closed foam kit online with a anti-microbial additive to resist mold growth.

Would this project be difficult for a weekend amateur to tackle?

I am also worried about the toxic fumes the foam will admit while curing. I have two young kids at home. Do you recommend I aerate the home after the insulation job?

Thanks.

The anti-microbial additive will resist mold growth on the foam itself but if your having a moisture problems as you are indicating then that's not the fix for the issue IMO as any unsprayed area's will be susceptible to the moisture/mold issues.

There are several options out there depending on your situation to reduce or eliminate the moisture issues your having. The spray foam is good for the air seal and insulation factor but the moisture issue is another whole bowl of wax. Do you have a vapor barrier down on the floor of the crawl?

About the vapors from the foam I believe there is a DIY kit called foam it green which advertises it's a green product. Not sure what kind of vapors or fumes it puts off so you'd have to check with them. If your a DIYer willing and able to do the job I don't see why you couldn't tackle yourself however just make sure you doing the rights things and do your homework. You can potentially make the situation worse if you do the wrong things.

Take a good look at this link

http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...n-crawlspaces/

jimleahman 01-06-2012 02:45 PM

awesome article
 
thank you for the link to the article: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...n-crawlspaces/

now i am more confused? i think the jist of the article recommends I lay down a vapor barrier instead of foam insulation of the crawl space unless my home is built on a pier type construction? i did not comprehend half the article lol.

cbaur88 01-06-2012 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimleahman (Post 814599)
thank you for the link to the article: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...n-crawlspaces/

now i am more confused? i think the jist of the article recommends I lay down a vapor barrier instead of foam insulation of the crawl space unless my home is built on a pier type construction? i did not comprehend half the article lol.

I know it can all be overwhelming but just take your time and do a little home work.

A vapor barrier is a must in a crawl space. This vapor barrier covers the floor of the crawl space eliminating any moisture coming up from the ground. This alone will reduce moisture issues but how much is hard to say in your area. There are two sides of the fence on vented crawl spaces. They have been around and are still built today w/ new construction. However there is allot evidence out there that they draw in more moisture and humidity from the outside air then they do drawing it out.

I think the jist of the article was that in open crawl spaces there is a thermocline area around the bottom of the joist area which is a dramatic temperature gap. This gap causes condensation on the bottom of the insulation and on the bottom of joists which can be a real problem. In the article they are encouraging you to spray foam over the bottom of the joist to eliminate this. The key in your situation is the moisture issues. If it were me I'd start w/ a vapor barrier, from there I'd monitor moisture levels w/ a wireless gauge. If they are still to high then think about converting the crawl or getting a dehumidifier. Once levels are controlled you can re-insulate.

jimleahman 01-06-2012 03:21 PM

good info
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cbaur88 (Post 814614)
I know it can all be overwhelming but just take your time and do a little home work.

A vapor barrier is a must in a crawl space. This vapor barrier covers the floor of the crawl space eliminating any moisture coming up from the ground. This alone will reduce moisture issues but how much is hard to say in your area. There are two sides of the fence on vented crawl spaces. They have been around and are still built today w/ new construction. However there is allot evidence out there that they draw in more moisture and humidity from the outside air then they do drawing it out.

I think the jist of the article was that in open crawl spaces there is a thermocline area around the bottom of the joist area which is a dramatic temperature gap. This gap causes condensation on the bottom of the insulation and on the bottom of joists which can be a real problem. In the article they are encouraging you to spray foam over the bottom of the joist to eliminate this. The key in your situation is the moisture issues. If it were me I'd start w/ a vapor barrier, from there I'd monitor moisture levels w/ a wireless gauge. If they are still to high then think about converting the crawl or getting a dehumidifier. Once levels are controlled you can re-insulate.

i was originally going to start with a 6 mil vapor barrier cover on the flooring but i just assumed it wouldn't really provide warmth to the home. if the moisture is slowed form entering the home then it should be warmer? i am so glad you showed me the article because i was only going to foam coat between the joists. that would have been a disaster!

thanks again.:thumbsup:

cbaur88 01-06-2012 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimleahman (Post 814635)
i was originally going to start with a 6 mil vapor barrier cover on the flooring but i just assumed it wouldn't really provide warmth to the home. if the moisture is slowed form entering the home then it should be warmer? i am so glad you showed me the article because i was only going to foam coat between the joists. that would have been a disaster!

thanks again.:thumbsup:

I wouldn't confuse and or mix moisture and cold in the same boat. Moisture is one thing and coldness in the floors is another. That's not to say the moisture isn't a contributing factor in the overall coldness your feeling but you shouldn't or at least I wouldn't confuse the two. The moisture issue is huge because its going to possibly lead to rotting, mold, etc... That's something that needs to be dealt with. Once that's solved you can start trying to make the space warmer by insulating between the joists.


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