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Old 09-20-2012, 07:28 PM   #16
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


The idea is good. See if the Inspector buys the rafters insulated without the foam board in contact with the underside of the roof deck and no venting. Wind-washing: the attic air moving from the intake vent to the exhaust vent, blowing on the air-permeable fiberglass/rock wool batts (hence foam boards/house wrap). Or on an attic floor, the edge of blown-in/batt insulation (hence baffles). Long link, but you need to read it all: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...on?full_view=1

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Old 09-21-2012, 05:46 PM   #17
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


No go, he wouldn't accept it. First it will only be r-35 overall in the rafters (30 + 5 for the rigid foam on the T&G), second he said if I use fiberglass I have to vent it, and I have no ridge or soffets. I unfortunately have NO choice but to spray foam.

I'm all for building codes when it comes to safety, but when building codes force me to do something because it's "green", that really ticks me off.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:00 PM   #18
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


Well, we tried.

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Old 10-02-2012, 07:47 AM   #19
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


Well, fought it at the inspection office and won, he would have passed me with r-30c according to the code book. However (isn't there always one of these?), in 4-5 years my roof would have been totally rotted due to condensation from having no vents. I went ahead and got 6 prices to spray foam, talk about all over the map, ranging from 1800-4500 for open cell (r-30) and 3200-7000 for closed cell (r-38). I opted for the lowest price on the job and here's what I ended up with, quite happy with the results as they went 2-4 inches over the rafters which were true 2x8's. Total cost was $2,100, I had the gable ends done as well. My town offers a rebate of 50% up to $1600, so I'll be getting $1050 back from the town. Total cost to me after my rebate gets processed, $1050. Not bad.



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Old 10-02-2012, 03:44 PM   #20
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


Did they have to cover it with an intumescent paint?
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:27 PM   #21
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


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Did they have to cover it with an intumescent paint?
Nope. It was an extra option (A $2000 option at that) and I declined it. When I had it inspected today the inspector asked for it, I told him no I wasn't paying for it I already compromised enough and he signed me off for my insulation inspection. All done.

I don't need it anyway, there's no pilot in that air handler so no need for the paint. The code says if there's a pilot in the mechanical's you need the paint, as far as I interpreted it.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:17 PM   #22
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


never mind, I see you posted what you had done while I was researching in the Mass Codes ....


just out of curiosity, have you asked him for the code sections that require you to upgrade the attic? he is suppose to quote chapter and verse when telling you something is not to code, or must be brought up to a particular code requirement. once you have the code sections you can look it up yourself and see .....

I'd tell him you needed the sections, "So you can see what it is you need to do exactly so you figure how to accomplish it with the least cost."
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:18 PM   #23
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


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just out of curiosity, have you asked him for the code sections that require you to upgrade the attic? he is suppose to quote chapter and verse when telling you something is not to code, or must be brought up to a particular code requirement. once you have the code sections you can look it up yourself and see .....

I'd tell him you needed the sections, "So you can see what it is you need to do exactly so you figure how to accomplish it with the least cost."
He did show me, and it's very subjective. From what i can tell, the code allows for inspectors to determine "substantial renovation" requiring stuff like the attic which wasn't touched be brought up to code.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:32 PM   #24
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which section did he show you if I may ask?
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:49 PM   #25
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which section did he show you if I may ask?

Are you asking for code for attic insulation in general or foam insulation with the fire proof paint?
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:55 PM   #26
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


the section he used to tell you that you had to upgrade the insulation in an undisturbed attic
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:55 PM   #27
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Attic insulation in MA - Strange problem


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Did they have to cover it with an intumescent paint?

FYI, the code reads:

2603.4.1.6 Attics and crawl spaces. Within an attic or crawl space where entry is made only for service of utilities, foam plastic insulation shall be protected against ignition by 11/2-inch-thick (38 mm) mineral fiber insulation; 1/4-inch-thick (6.4 mm) wood structural panel, particleboard or hardboard; 3/8-inch (9.5 mm) gypsum wallboard, corrosion-resistant steel having a base metal thickness of 0.016 inch (0.4 mm) or other approved material installed in such a manner that the foam plastic insulation is not exposed. The protective covering shall be consistent with the requirements for the type of construction.


That's where I'm getting the "not required". I have no point of ignition in my attic. The air handler is part of a hydro system, it's not a forced hot air furnace in the attic.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:57 PM   #28
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was this a rental or single family project?
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:10 PM   #29
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the section he used to tell you that you had to upgrade the insulation in an undisturbed attic
Quote:
Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs.
Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs to an existing building, building system or portion thereof shall conform to the provisions of this code as they relate to new construction without requiring the unaltered portion(s) of the existing building or building system to comply with this code. Additions, alterations, renovations, or repairs shall not create an unsafe or hazardous condition or overload existing building systems. An addition shall be deemed to comply with this code if the addition alone complies or if the existing building and addition, comply with this code as a single building.
That's where I believed it wasn't required.

Then there's this:

Quote:
Exceptions:
5. Reroofingfor roofs where neither the sheathing nor the insulation are exposed. Roofs without insulation in the cavity and where the sheathing or insulation is exposed during reroofingshall be insulated either above or below the sheathing.
But I didn't touch my roof, so that didn't apply.

Then there's this:



There is where he said he's holding to me to R-38 on the ceiling. After a bit of talking and having the R-5 foam board already on the roof between the shingles and sheathing, he allowed me to apply the "f" stipulation from the flooring part of the chart on my ceiling and "fill the cavity" with r-30c fiberglass or r-30 open cell foam.

Another important note, my town did not adopt the Stetch code.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:10 PM   #30
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was this a rental or single family project?

Single family, my own house.

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