Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Insulation

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-28-2012, 10:50 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific North west
Posts: 1,169
Share |
Default

air sealing this ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix'n it View Post
my exterior walls use T&G boards. are these basicly(good enough ?) air sealed ? if not, what is an economical way of sealing it ?
Do the KISS system from Knauff Eco seal it then insulation. Works very well zero VOC.

Nailbags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 06:28 PM   #17
Member
 
Tom Struble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 2,785
Default

air sealing this ?


i understand but you can understand it's tough to make a recommendation when the variables are not really known

as far as the air sealing,i would follow windows on washingtons suggestion

good luck with your project
Tom Struble is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom Struble For This Useful Post:
Fix'n it (06-10-2012)
Old 05-29-2012, 08:29 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far sw sub chicago
Posts: 3,407
Default

air sealing this ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
i understand but you can understand it's tough to make a recommendation when the variables are not really known

as far as the air sealing,i would follow windows on washingtons suggestion

good luck with your project
fair enough. i am not going to be insulating for a while anyway. so i will get the windows and install that one. at that time i will know what is there, and report back.

WoW and joe have the ideas that fit my budget the best (afaikn).

thanx you. right now, i need all the blessings i can get
Fix'n it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2012, 11:57 PM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

air sealing this ?


Installing a housewrap outboard of the cavity insulation for an air barrier would do little to stop airflow from the interior through holes in the drywall. Just side stapling H.W. would be useless as an air-barrier which requires continuous coverage.

In your cold climate, the heated air is ex-filtrating out most of the year, not coming in (infiltrating). Diffusion would be small scale compared to air leaks under drywall or around electrical boxes. Pages 3-8; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...researchreport

You need an interior vapor retarder if no f.b. on exterior, bottom of page 7. Control you indoor RH as in fig. 9.


If unable to use exterior foam board, ADA the drywall after using a paper-faced insulation batt- fig. 5, keep the air from going out through drywall leaks. http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/

The importance of exterior f.b. and added cavity insulation, notice the dew-point differences; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-controlling-cold-weather-condensation-using-insulation/view

Relate the steel studs with dew points to cavity f.b. rather than on exterior.

You have to air-seal the drywall, no inset stud stapling of faced batts, full-contact of insulation with drywall- even 1/32” will damage you, and use a “smart vapor retarder” like asphalt faced batt or “MemBrain”; https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...sNmmYf-psHZnLA

Ginger vs. MaryAnn; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...024-vocabulary

http://www.bestofbuildingscience.com...3-4_p37-40.pdf


Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 01:41 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific North west
Posts: 1,169
Default

air sealing this ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GBR in WA View Post
Installing a housewrap outboard of the cavity insulation for an air barrier would do little to stop airflow from the interior through holes in the drywall. Just side stapling H.W. would be useless as an air-barrier which requires continuous coverage.

In your cold climate, the heated air is ex-filtrating out most of the year, not coming in (infiltrating). Diffusion would be small scale compared to air leaks under drywall or around electrical boxes. Pages 3-8; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...researchreport

You need an interior vapor retarder if no f.b. on exterior, bottom of page 7. Control you indoor RH as in fig. 9.


If unable to use exterior foam board, ADA the drywall after using a paper-faced insulation batt- fig. 5, keep the air from going out through drywall leaks. http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...wall-approach/

The importance of exterior f.b. and added cavity insulation, notice the dew-point differences; http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-controlling-cold-weather-condensation-using-insulation/view

Relate the steel studs with dew points to cavity f.b. rather than on exterior.

You have to air-seal the drywall, no inset stud stapling of faced batts, full-contact of insulation with drywall- even 1/32” will damage you, and use a “smart vapor retarder” like asphalt faced batt or “MemBrain”; https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...sNmmYf-psHZnLA

Ginger vs. MaryAnn; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...024-vocabulary

http://www.bestofbuildingscience.com...3-4_p37-40.pdf


Gary
Well you can use non faced batts and use a 4 mil plastic vapor retarder from top plate to bottom plate and seal it up good to right?
Nailbags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2012, 01:21 PM   #21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

air sealing this ?


Is this for our climate in the Pacific Northwest? If so, poly v.b. are dangerous with engineered wood materials, OSB, etc., pp. 46-50: http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildin...rica/38449.pdf

Notice they site the test by BSC I already used, here it is again- in easier to understand form; http://www.buildingscienceconsulting...Strategies.pdf

BSC recommends using more permeable materials- in general- (when it will work) than poly in all cases: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...commendations/

Around Seattle local climate, poly is suggested only when indoor RH is above 60%, pp. 50, 51 and 57; http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/rpt/113799.pdf If you couple that fact with the low drying ability of OSB, better to use a variable vapor retarder as I mentioned already. Poly is for much colder climates.

Fig. 2a, 2b show our walls, read page #7 especially; http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...nd-wall-design

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 12:23 PM   #22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

air sealing this ?


Found the one I was thinking of- poly in Zone 6 or higher, fig. 10: http://www.buildingscience.com/docum...control_ed.pdf

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 09:15 PM   #23
Exterior Construction
 
Windows on Wash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: VA, MD, DC
Posts: 5,517
Default

air sealing this ?


As always, good information in GBR's links.
Windows on Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2012, 11:12 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific North west
Posts: 1,169
Default

air sealing this ?


Now my real question talking to some real old timers who built more homes then I ever would or will say that homes to day are to air tight and need to leak air like the old days. so that if moisture does get in to the wall it can go some were and not rot out the sheathing or build mold galore. So maybe just good old fashon fiberglass and face nailing is the way to go? Who knows?
Nailbags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 12:14 AM   #25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

air sealing this ?


It has been studied a lot..... Impact of cavity air-tightness- eg. 35% R-value reduction, wind-tightness- 10-40%, air gap on the warm side of f.g. = 300% heat loss in examples; 2a, 2b: http://www.aecb.net/PDFs/Impact_of_thermal_bypass.pdf

There are quite a few air/moisture leakage pathways for infiltration/exfiltration on all houses: http://www.conservationtechnology.co...eakagePathways

Of course now we use OSB (engineered wood) and it has it's own bucket o' problems. Why not drill some holes in it to speed-up drying of the cavity.....pp.22, 23: http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/do....2/b1239.2.pdf


Holes under window for ventilation---- I do like the rest, though, especially the end dams on head flashing, pp8: http://www.mtcc1170.com/images/BCRainScreen.pdf

Thanks, WoW, they are worth researching for.

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 12:59 AM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pa
Posts: 50
Default

air sealing this ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fix'n it View Post
my exterior walls use T&G boards. are these basicly(good enough ?) air sealed ? if not, what is an economical way of sealing it ?
The Best and only way to cover all your needs here is have all the wall cavities professionally sprayed foamed.

I'm a bit of an insulation expert on another site and the bottom line here is the extra cost of spray foam will easily pay in savings of heating that space in short years .

The R values in foam are tremendous for density. We spray foam Cathedral ceilings and that solves ALL the problems of vapor barrier and R values that needs to be obtained.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...sulation_table

http://www.xpsa.com/tech/Tech%20Talk...lue%20Roof.pdf

http://www.spray-foam.com/compare.html

http://www.tigerfoam.com/
21boat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 10:29 PM   #27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,968
Default

air sealing this ?


SPF is certainly the best but certainly not the most economical way to seal it. As it is T&G, there would be very little air/moisture coming in due to a heating climate. Outgoing air, possibly, though T&G still covers an open air gap when the boards expand and contract with the seasons due to the locking effect. I agree with air sealing the cavity, even the small cracks if absolutely necessary in the OP's mind. Use some canned foam, caulking or tape, in addition to f.g., rock wool or better still- cellulose totaling 1/3 or 1/4 the cost of full cavity SPF: http://www.ornl.gov/sci/buildings/20...s/80_Bibee.pdf

Remember too, we are a DIY site, not "hire a pro".

Gary
__________________
If any ads are present in my answer above, I do not condone/support/use the product or services listed, they are there against my permission.
Gary in WA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2012, 11:29 PM   #28
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific North west
Posts: 1,169
Default

air sealing this ?


So my question now is this. We build homes so air tight and have to seal them up it makes Tupperware look like a sieve. Then they have you put windows in with open vents and install a whole house fan that moves 100 cmf twice a day for eight hours each time. Sucking out all the warm or cold air in your home when if you left well enough a lone and not seal you your home it would do the same thing as having open vents on your windows and a whole house fan keeping a constant draft in your home. Sheeah! why even do it?
Nailbags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2012, 08:42 AM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far sw sub chicago
Posts: 3,407
Default

air sealing this ?


ok. lets assume that in the future, year or 2, i can reside the house. and i decide to use foam board on the outside, over my existing asphalt siding.
and lets say i currently decide to use foam board on the inside of the sheathing sealed with spray foam.

how will this effect the T&G sheathing ?
Fix'n it is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2012, 10:01 AM   #30
Exterior Construction
 
Windows on Wash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: VA, MD, DC
Posts: 5,517
Default

air sealing this ?


If you air barrier details are not spot on from the interior foam side, the T&G could rot.

It will be more likely to sweat with any bulk movement of relative humidity because it will be much colder as a result of the thermal uncoupling of the rigid foam board.

Foam to the outside will keep the T&G warmer and in doing so, ward off condensation.

You can use rigid foam to the interior but you have to be extra careful with your sealing.

Windows on Wash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air sealing attic mmastran Insulation 11 05-25-2011 07:31 AM
sealing compound?! mmhendrie Electrical 1 07-18-2010 06:51 PM
Sealing new boxes on an exterior wall Mthrboard Electrical 1 08-16-2009 08:05 PM
Sealing windows with vinyl siding bighoneydolist Building & Construction 8 03-08-2009 06:36 PM
sealing INSIDE an exterior wall penatration measure thrice Electrical 1 01-24-2009 02:12 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.