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Old 01-07-2014, 07:00 AM   #16
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What do you think of this drywall job?


If it had of been done right in the first place there would not have to be a plan B.
Hope you have better luck then I would finding a finisher that will even work on this job.
There going to loose about a 1/2 day just filling and patching. And time is money.
If this job was run through a real licensed GC with a lick of since and pride in his work around here and he walked in and saw this that would be that hangers last job, and would be done over at his expense.
A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
There should be no reason for him to make like a dog and try and cover up his poop.
Anyone that's been in the business a while has had to go through this before.
I used to sit down at night and write written instructions for each employee on what I expected to get done that day on bigger jobs. All they had to do was do was what was on the list and check off what got done.
I'd show up and they had lost there list and decided to just do whatever they happen to feel like doing.
We would be in the middle of a big deck job and as soon as it was done they where going to a home to replace all the windows. I had given the lead man written instructions.
I went on a cruse out of the country and I'm getting text's from the deck customer asking why we where not there to finish, and another one saying I love my new windows.
What would make them think it was a good idea to spend all the time to pack up and move to a different job?

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Old 01-07-2014, 08:26 AM   #17
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What do you think of this drywall job?


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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
If it had of been done right in the first place there would not have to be a plan B.
Hope you have better luck then I would finding a finisher that will even work on this job.
I'm going through a big GC firm and in theory that's their concern as the contract covers all drywall and finishing. My problem is more that I'm paying extra for soundproofing, but the shoddy joints will render that a waste of money.

I can't believe the disconnect between the standards of the contractor and the responses I'm getting here! My guy really, honestly, seems to think that his job is fine.

P

Last edited by Proton; 01-07-2014 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:48 AM   #18
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What do you think of this drywall job?


For soundproofing against bass guitar noise transmission, you may also regret not having resilient channel and RC clips.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:54 AM   #19
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For soundproofing against bass guitar noise transmission, you may also regret not having resilient channel and RC clips.
Thanks -

Right now, my instinct is to tell the GC to get their sheetrock off my wall and do the job myself with RC and green glue (which is what I wanted to begin with, but they forgot).

My understanding is that RC itself does not require special clips. There is a local vendor who stocks GenieClips, but they add a significant depth (around 1.5") to the wall and I think it might lower the 7'6" ceiling too much. Using RC along (adding 1/2") would probably be a reasonable compromise.

P
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:54 AM   #20
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ouch, I self taught myself drywalling in my own basement and my jobs look better than that, doesn't look like they used enough green glue. Did they use any? how many tubes per sheet?

not using resilient channel will make a big difference.

acoustical sealant needs to go in all exposed drywall gaps. I suspect the pics of the ones you provided are too big for the most part. can you even get caulk saver foam that big?

go to the web sites for green glue and resilient channel, they have specs as to the standards for installing.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:59 AM   #21
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ouch, I self taught myself drywalling in my own basement and my jobs look better than that, doesn't look like they used enough green glue. Did they use any? how many tubes per sheet?

not using resilient channel will make a big difference.

acoustical sealant needs to go in all exposed drywall gaps. I suspect the pics of the ones you provided are too big for the most part. can you even get caulk saver foam that big?

go to the web sites for green glue and resilient channel, they have specs as to the standards for installing.
Thanks bbo - in the end they did not use Green Glue. The didn't know what Green Glue is until I explained it to them yesterday. They just don't seem to get it that this is a sloppy job. It's possible that their way of doing drywall is cost-effective for the GC, because normally all those gaps are covered with baseboard or other finishing materials, and maybe they have a really skilled drywall finisher who can work miracles on whatever is put up? I don't believe this will work for soundproofing though.

I've been reading Rod Gervais' book, and the Green Glue web site is indeed very good. I think I now know more about soundproofing than the GC, and if I can take the time to do the drywall well then I can probably do a better job myself.

P
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:00 AM   #22
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Thanks -

Right now, my instinct is to tell the GC to get their sheetrock off my wall and do the job myself with RC and green glue (which is what I wanted to begin with, but they forgot).

My understanding is that RC itself does not require special clips. There is a local vendor who stocks GenieClips, but they add a significant depth (around 1.5") to the wall and I think it might lower the 7'6" ceiling too much. Using RC along (adding 1/2") would probably be a reasonable compromise.

P
I don't think they forgot. they remembered how much $$$ it cost. I think the green glue here was 2x the price of the 5/8 drywall is I remember right and that's just 1 tube per sheet. not to mention the added cost of the channel and sealant.


I also opted out of the clips ( still used the channel ) but used the channel ( double leg on ceiling affixed every other joist )

I felt mine was a reasonable compromise. my office down here I hear only when the kids are running or pounding on the floor upstairs right above me.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:03 AM   #23
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I don't think they forgot. they remembered how much $$$ it cost. I think the green glue here was 2x the price of the 5/8 drywall is I remember right and that's just 1 tube per sheet. not to mention the added cost of the channel and sealant.


I also opted out of the clips ( still used the channel ) but used the channel ( double leg on ceiling affixed every other joist )

I felt mine was a reasonable compromise. my office down here I hear only when the kids are running or pounding on the floor upstairs right above me.
From the data I can find, and subjective reviews, it seems like the Green Glue is expensive but worth it (more so than special acoustic drywall, for example). It seems like the most cost effective approach is:

- properly installed resilient channel
- two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue in between
- drywall cleanly cut, with 1/8" gaps around boxes and edges filled with acoustic caulking

P
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:21 AM   #24
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I can't believe the disconnect between the standards of the contractor and the responses I'm getting here! My guy really, honestly, seems to think that his job is fine.
Because if he thinks anything else, or at least admits to thinking it, it will cost him money. He's in the business of making money, not doing things correctly. Sorry you're getting screwed by them. You can always threaten to leave bad reviews or take him to court. Some people would care, some won't.

Last edited by mikegp; 01-07-2014 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:24 AM   #25
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Because if h the thinks anything else, or at least admits to thinking it, it will cost him money. He's in the business of making money, not doing things correctly. Sorry you're getting screwed by them. You can always threaten to le the bad reviews or take him to court. Some people would care, some won't.
Sadly I think you are right. This guy is going to protect his business interests. I will be very lucky to even get a refund for the drywall work they did, when I redo the work myself.

P
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:32 AM   #26
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Here's some examples of how it should have been done.
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...roofing-walls/
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:20 AM   #27
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Because if he thinks anything else, or at least admits to thinking it, it will cost him money. He's in the business of making money, not doing things correctly. Sorry you're getting screwed by them. You can always threaten to leave bad reviews or take him to court. Some people would care, some won't.
So what do I do? We've been working on this project since October, and it's kind of a once-in-a-lifetime financial (and time) plunge for me and my family. I think that GC's with this mentality have a very keen sense of the fact that someone like me is really at their mercy. It's great to talk about kicking him off the site, but I simply don't have the budget, time, or emotional energy to re-start from zero with another contractor.

My gut feeling is that the best way to cover my losses is to tell the GC to leave the music room alone, finish everything else, and get out (I'd do the soundproofing myself). The premium I was quoted, to have the soundproofing treatment over standard drywall, was $1,400. I am very sure that, in the GC's mind, he has done that and there is no way he's going to give any kind of credit if I deem the work unacceptable.

Another frustrating thing is that the $1,400 quote was given verbally at the end of a phone conversation. The conversation took place in French, which is not my first language, so I said I approved "in principle" but asked the GC to send me a written summary of the work to be performed for my review and final approval (to avoid any misunderstandings - I speak French ok but don't know all the technical or building terms). He never sent the written quote and work description, and they rushed to do the work before Christmas, so there is nothing on paper (the rush was pointless, as the basement is still nowhere near finished). This could be viewed in two ways: one way is that I am screwed, since I don't have any written spec for the work so can't really complain; the other puts the contractor in a weak position, since I can argue that I never got the information I needed to give final approval for the work and could just refuse to pay. I would like to solve this amicably if possible - advice on my realistic options would be appreciated. I don't want to end up with a lien on my house...

P
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:31 AM   #28
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Thanks -



My understanding is that RC itself does not require special clips. There is a local vendor who stocks GenieClips, but they add a significant depth (around 1.5") to the wall and I think it might lower the 7'6" ceiling too much. Using RC along (adding 1/2") would probably be a reasonable compromise.

P
Sound control is all about those compromises, and eliminating the clips is one that's common. Measurements indicate using RC or hat channel alone does help, but with clips it accomplishes a lot more.
http://soundproofing.org/infopages/c...m#.UswepfRDt8E and http://soundproofing.org/infopages/s...m#.UswpPfRDt8E

Ted White has posted a lot about this in the AVS forum. He also recommends hat channel rather than resilient channel. This saves space too.
http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...t-sound-clips/

The big STC gain will come from the mass, the twin layers of drywall with a dampening glue between. Properly installed. After that, it comes down to how much you want to decouple that vibrating mass from the transmission routes that resonate the LF to the annoyance of your wife.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:57 AM   #29
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I could see where you have no recourse because of a verbal contract about all the extra work to do the sound proofing, but the total lack of workman ship shown should be a totally different issue.
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Old 01-07-2014, 12:05 PM   #30
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That's junky sheetrock work and electrical. My guess is that the contractor doesn't have a clue about the acoustic questions, and just figured that a good finisher should be able to deal with the cosmetic issues. The contractor should fill all the gaps, large or small, with acoustic caulk. The loose electrical loops should be dealt with - that's just hackery.

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