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-   -   Repairing cracks from settling (http://www.diychatroom.com/f101/repairing-cracks-settling-73818/)

rosco 06-16-2010 05:16 AM

Repairing cracks from settling
 
2 Attachment(s)
before i started, i would like to ask if i'm going about this correctly.

the first type of "mud" work is to fix cracks in a few walls (probably from settling or drying of tiber). my plan here is to sand down the nearby paint, etch out the crack with a knife about 1/8" then tape and mud. prime and paint.
Attachment 21684

the second type of crack repair is seen in the ceiling of the above photo. these are pieces of plywood that were just never taped/mudded. simply tape/mud/prime/paint.


the third type crack repair is random ceiling cracks. same thing and i've the same approach, except in the ceiling, i'll be putting in 1" drywall screws along with the nails that are present.
you can see tape in the background ceiling imperfection over an obvious crack from settling. and in the foreground, it looks like a crack repair that didn't involve tape (fiberglass mesh is what i'll use).
Attachment 21685

if this is okay, is a 8" putty knife better than a 12" for all around use in these jobs?

thanks again. i hope i'm correct in my ideas, but if not, please let me know. much better to understand before starting then after.

bjbatlanta 06-19-2010 09:59 AM

You don't necessarily need to "etch out" the crack If you do, pre-fill with setting compound and let dry prior to taping. If you use mesh tape, setting type compound is required for at least the first coat. Additional coats can be ready mix. I'd recommend a 10" knife, personally. It's what I use most often. An 8" will suffice, but a 10" will do a better job of covering. A 12" is a bit much for a DIY'er.....

rosco 06-29-2010 01:58 AM

sinking screws
 
4 Attachment(s)
i'm having a hard time putting screws in where the studs or "joists" in the cieling drywall. it is an old ceiling. you can see in the photos, the placement of some screws was easy while others didn't find a 2x4 so i removed them. Attachment 22033
Attachment 22034
Attachment 22035
Attachment 22037
i'm under the impression the first step is to remove the old tape from the seams. then put screws in since the nails from long-ago are not holding the drywall in place. what is the procedure? do i sink screws in next to the nails? and how do i find the joists? the stud-finder i have isn't giving me the exact location (or the screws don't always find the joists studs in ceiling). i've pushed the drywall up which pushes the old nails through the paint to do this and find it works. so, is this correct?
  • just find the old nails and put screws in nearby?
  • Bang in the nails;
  • retape and "mud" the joints;
  • "mud" over the screws;
  • sand, prime and paint?
i bought a 10" mud blade and a mud box to help. i'll continue using fiber tape and joint compound with setting agent for first coat and a lightweight joint compound for 2nd/last coat of mud.

rosco 06-29-2010 02:02 AM

oh, i forgot to mention, it is absolutely impossible for me to get to this area of the ceiling attic. that would be the easiest way to see what is up there above this section.

rosco 06-29-2010 04:48 AM

finished first photo
 
1 Attachment(s)
here is photo of finished job (at least before ceiling texture is put in or possibly before the plywood ceiling is replaced):
Attachment 22044

but i still need help w/ other sections of this remodeling as described in this thread above.

rosco 06-29-2010 05:08 AM

yet, another question
 
1 Attachment(s)
bjbatlanta,
you wrote, "pre-fill with setting compound and let dry prior to taping. If you use mesh tape, setting type compound is required for at least the first coat. Additional coats can be ready mix." which one of these has a "setting compound?" a person at home depot said the one on the right. Attachment 22045

oh, the doggy door in the photo was downsized from an old junky X-Large one. i had to rip it out and redo the frame inside and seal around it again. then practiced my taping and mudding on several pieces of drywall left-over from a previous project. one can hardly tell the old junker dog door was ever there!

gdoucette 06-29-2010 07:48 AM

rosco, setting-type comes in powder form. It sets through a chemical reaction with water, as opposed to the pre-mix compound which simply dries out. In your picture, you have two different pre-mixes. The bucket is all-pupose and can be used for the first coats if using paper tape. Works well if there are no big gaps or holes. The stuff in the green box looks like a lite premix compound which would be for the final finish coat, sands very easily and smoothly. If it comes ready to apply, its pre-mix. If it's powder that you have to mix with water, it setting-type. I wouldn't count on the people at Home Depot knowing anything except where to find things.

The setting-type will be called something like Sheetrock 45 or Sheetrock 90. The 45/90 indicates how long it takes to set (not necessarily dry) once the compound sets, you can start your next coat. This usually allows you get all of the required coats applied in one day. The premix compounds are highly subject to humidity, and if applied where humidity is high, they can take days to dry (trust me, I just finished my basement).

Going back a couple posts, you asked about taking the tape off to put the screws in. There's no need to remove the old tape unless it is damaged and looks bad. Drive your screws through the existing tape. They should sink below the surface, and when you patch over them you'll never know the difference.

Sounds like you're having fun :thumbup:

bjbatlanta 06-29-2010 08:53 AM

Correct, setting type is powder form. Both Lowes and HD carry USG "Easy Sand" setting compounds in 20,45, & 90 minute. Both types of compound you show are ready-mix. The green box is regular and the blue lid bucket is lightweight, meant for skimming. I don't use or recommend lightweight ready-mix as it doesn't et as hard and scratches easily. A lot of people use it though....

rosco 06-29-2010 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gdoucette (Post 462839)
rosco,... If it comes ready to apply, its pre-mix. If it's powder that you have to mix with water, it setting-type. I wouldn't count on the people at Home Depot knowing anything except where to find things.

darnit! they told me wrong again. i've done tons of tape/mud jobs in the four rooms where all this remodeling is taking place. i've used mostly the stuff in the bucket (finishing compound). the HD employee did say this would be the finishing stuff but that the box had setting compound and is used in the first coat, at least.

what will be the end result? will all this taped/mudded area crack?

gdoucette 06-29-2010 01:52 PM

Maybe, maybe not. Lots of people only use pre-mix. Others swear by setting type. If you are filling large gaps, a setting type like Durabond is the way to go, then cover with finish compound. Fact is, if your house shifts, its going to crack anyway. That being said, if your cracks are fine and your walls are well attached to the framing, you should be okay. My preference, if you're using mesh tape, would be to use a setting compound. Some will agree, some will say it doesn't matter.

rosco 06-29-2010 04:09 PM

THX gdoucette! i feel a little better knowing i didn't wrongly do the tape/mud job 100% wrong. there is hope it won't crack.

now, back to how i shall proceed:
i've pushed the drywall up which pushes the old nails through the paint to do this and find it works. so, is this correct?
  • just find the old nails and put screws in nearby?
  • Bang in the nails;
  • retape and "mud" the joints;
  • "mud" over the screws;
  • sand, prime and paint?

gdoucette 06-29-2010 07:13 PM

it seems to work for you. I would probably try to take the nails out, but I'm not sure how far out the heads are popping. If they are coming out enough to get your hammer claw or a pry bar under them, put a piece of wood under the pivot point to keep your tool from going through the drywall, and gently pull it out ... just because there is really no reason to leave them there once you've reinforced with screws.

You're on your way! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

rosco 06-30-2010 04:54 PM

Gdoucette,
i hope it will work for me. i've never done this before, excepting a little taping/mudding gaps in ceiling corners where i removed trim.

most nails are not sticking out. the few that are only come out a fraction so as to lift the paint a little. this is maybe 2% of them though. the problem i'm having with some screws is i can not get them to go below the surface of the plywood or sheet rock (depending on the room).

rosco 07-04-2010 05:34 AM

20 sets-up in five minutes???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gdoucette (Post 462839)
rosco, setting-type comes in powder form. It sets through a chemical reaction with water, as opposed to the pre-mix compound which simply dries out. In your picture, you have two different pre-mixes. The bucket is all-pupose and can be used for the first coats if using paper tape. Works well if there are no big gaps or holes. The stuff in the green box looks like a lite premix compound which would be for the final finish coat, sands very easily and smoothly. If it comes ready to apply, its pre-mix. If it's powder that you have to mix with water, it setting-type. I wouldn't count on the people at Home Depot knowing anything except where to find things.

The setting-type will be called something like Sheetrock 45 or Sheetrock 90. The 45/90 indicates how long it takes to set (not necessarily dry) once the compound sets, you can start your next coat. This usually allows you get all of the required coats applied in one day. The premix compounds are highly subject to humidity, and if applied where humidity is high, they can take days to dry (trust me, I just finished my basement).

Going back a couple posts, you asked about taking the tape off to put the screws in. There's no need to remove the old tape unless it is damaged and looks bad. Drive your screws through the existing tape. They should sink below the surface, and when you patch over them you'll never know the difference.

Sounds like you're having fun :thumbup:

i am using the 20 minute bag mix with the setting compound. i mix it in the little mud box with a 6" knife. but w/i 5-10 minutes of beginning to mix it sets-up rock hard and is still wet as you mentioned.
either i'm in a warped time sector on planet 9 or i'm missing a trick. how do i keep it from setting up for 20 minutes? keep stirring while i apply the stuff?
it seems i'd look a fool if i went back to the store where i bought it and argued the label of twenty minutes was wrong.

THX!
ps. i wish i had remembered what you wrote in the last paragraph before ripping down an old taping job.

Axecutioner-B 07-04-2010 01:11 PM

I use a mix of "20 minute" & +3 I have a 2 gallon bucket that i mix it in, i use a small mixing bit in a drill & mix the 20 minute first, seperately. After the 20 minute is a nice consistency i add 2 or 3 big scoops of the +3, then mix that in with the 20 minute & mix it until it all mixes good together. At this point you have about 30 minutes to work with the amount of mud you just mixed.

Most people just mix the 20 minute in their pan with a 6" knife, i am too lazy for that :D

If i added a tip it would be: take 2 medium/small sized scoops of 20 minute & throw it in your pan & mix it, then throw in 2 good sized scoops of +3 or whatever regular mud you are using, throw it in your pan too & mix the 2 together. Adding the +3 to your 20 minute will extend the time you have to work with the mud AND make it more workable while you're using it ;)


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