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-   -   primer not adhering to drywall texture? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f101/primer-not-adhering-drywall-texture-50961/)

eli_carson 08-15-2009 07:11 PM

primer not adhering to drywall texture?
 
We had the drywall walls in our kitchen eating area re-textured a couple years ago after we removed some old wallpaper. We then primed the new texture, let the primer dry several days, and painted with 2 coats of a semi-gloss paint. Since then we've noticed that if the wall gets bumped by a chair or a kid or whatever, the paint seems to come loose. If the paint layer does not get cut or chipped off, it all stays basically intact as a sheet although it looks like the paint lifts a bit from the wall (the underlying texture becomes a bit less noticeable and the paint seems a bit smoother in that section). If the paint layer does get damaged however, it starts peeling. It's easy to peel off big sheets of paint, and the primer seems to be coming with it since what is left on the walls is chalky. The texture itself seems to be adhered to the wallboard just fine, it's just that the paint and primer do not seem to have bonded with the drywall texture. My original plan had been to fix just the damaged areas by peeling the paint just back to where there was some good adhesion, but so much of the paint seems to be loose that I ended up scraping off all the paint in the room. (Well, I haven't tackled the painted ceiling yet--that sounds like an uncomfortable and even messier ordeal, so I'm putting it off as long as possible:)...)

Any ideas as to why it didn't stick? My initial thought was that perhaps the walls had too much chalk dust on them at the initial priming, and that prevented the primer from adhering??? However, if that's the case I don't know what to do this time around, as the texture seems chalky no matter what. Any time I rub my hand lightly across the texture my hand gets white and chalky, too. Another possibility that occurred to me is that it was a primer failure--not the primer/sealer itself, but rather the guy who it. I know my dad has in the past added water to old primer that's getting thick, and if he did that this time could that be the problem? Or maybe the texture material the drywall guys used was improperly prepared?

So what now? Is there anything I can use that will solidly adhere to this chalky, textured surface and give me a good strong base for a couple coats of paint? If not, would it help to hit the whole thing with a thin coat of joint compound first? (I figure the joint compound should adhere to the texture, and I've never had a problem with primer adhering to joint compound in the past... I also have a few dings and blemishes to repair, and I dislike the orange peel texture enough that I certainly wouldn't mind taking this opportunity to do something that better matches the adjoining rooms.)

My kitchen is a dusty mess right now, so any ideas on how to get things back on track would be much appreciated!

Eli

chrisn 08-16-2009 06:41 AM

You have so many bad things going on,I don't know where to start.To me, the best solution would be to tear it all down and put up new drywall.

Scuba_Dave 08-16-2009 11:00 AM

If its the texture that is failing then anything you do with paint will fail

Have any pics?

Given your description of the chalky layer I'd be inclined to rip it down & put up new drywall too

eli_carson 08-16-2009 11:16 AM

Replace the drywall??? I have to say that sounds extreme... Can you please expand on why you think that would be necessary? The current drywall is in good shape, and the few dings to repair are minor--just your typical pre-painting touch-up work.

Are you thinking the drywall itself is somehow to blame for the paint/primer adhesion problem?

Scuba_Dave 08-16-2009 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eli_carson (Post 314880)
It's easy to peel off big sheets of paint, and the primer seems to be coming with it since what is left on the walls is chalky. The texture itself seems to be adhered to the wallboard just fine, it's just that the paint and primer do not seem to have bonded with the drywall texture.

Any ideas as to why it didn't stick? My initial thought was that perhaps the walls had too much chalk dust on them at the initial priming, and that prevented the primer from adhering??? However, if that's the case I don't know what to do this time around, as the texture seems chalky no matter what. Any time I rub my hand lightly across the texture my hand gets white and chalky, too. Another possibility that occurred to me is that it was a primer failure--not the primer/sealer itself, but rather the guy who it. I know my dad has in the past added water to old primer that's getting thick, and if he did that this time could that be the problem? Or maybe the texture material the drywall guys used was improperly prepared?

So what now? Is there anything I can use that will solidly adhere to this chalky, textured surface and give me a good strong base for a couple coats of paint? If not, would it help to hit the whole thing with a thin coat of joint compound first? (I figure the joint compound should adhere to the texture, and I've never had a problem with primer adhering to joint compound in the past...
Eli

Basically you either have a problem with the primer
OR
You have a problem with the texture

Since you stated multiple times that the texture is "chalky" I don't think anyone will tell you to chance priming again only to have the same thing happen again
Possibly an oil base primer or hitting it with the joint compound may work
But do you want to take that chance?

I think I might possibly test a small area with joint compund
But your problem appeared several years after priming & painting
Do you want to do all this work & then go thru this again in a few years?

Another possibilty (maybe) is moisture in the wall cavity causing a problem?

eli_carson 08-16-2009 12:56 PM

It doesn't seem to be a moisture problem as far as I can tell. We are hoping to remodel the kitchen in a few years, so I may take my chances on a temporary fix.

How about if I hit it with the joint compound first, then use a sealer prior to the primer? It looks like Zinsser "Gardz" is intended to penetrate chalky surfaces and bind them down, so maybe that would do the trick?

bjbatlanta 08-16-2009 04:51 PM

I don't think the drywall itself is the problem and certainly wouldn't worry with replacing it. I think that references were a bit "tongue in cheek"?? Texture on wall or ceilings is either done because of an incompetent finisher who can't get a proper "level of finish" (and there are several depending on the type of paint to be used or critical lighting) or someone just likes "rough" walls. I don't see the point in either, personally. As Scuba_Dave said, it sounds like it could be the paint OR texture. Hard to say "sight unseen". I'd GUESS that if there is some semblance of texture left on the wall (adhering to the drywall) it's not the texture, but the paint. Sounds like it shouldn't be that big of an ordeal to remove the old paint/texture if the paint isn't bonding. I'd scrape/sand the walls, touch-up and paint. Forget the texture. Hire a pro to come in and get you to a level 5 finish if you want to use any sort of gloss paint.....

chrisn 08-16-2009 07:39 PM

Here is your quote that bothered me the most

It's easy to peel off big sheets of paint, and the primer seems to be coming with it since what is left on the walls is chalky.

If what is under the primer is chalky, there is nothing you can do but remove the paint and primer and clean off the chalk, otherwise nothing is going to stick.Gardz( a great product) will not penetrate both paint and primer

eli_carson 08-16-2009 11:57 PM

I've already scraped off the paint and primer, so the Gardz would not need to penetrate those. Rather, I was hoping that now that I have the poorly adhered paint layer off and am down to what seems to be a good layer of drywall with a well-adhered layer of chalky white texture material coating it, would the Gardz work well to penetrate and bind the texture layer so that the primer and paint would be able to adhere. The primer obviously didn't adhere to the texture layer, but is sounds like Gardz is formulated specifically for porous surfaces. And I assume you can then primer over that, no?

chrisn 08-17-2009 06:07 AM

Give it a try, it SHOULD work, but there is no need to apply another primer over the Gardz, as it is a primer itself. Just make sure you have a good heavy coat or two coats.

mazzonetv 08-18-2009 02:46 PM

just reading quickly through this thread I saw where the OP said something about removing old wallpaper. Wonder if there is/was old wp glue residue under this "mess" I agree with Chris - Guardz isn't going to go through the paint and primer and improve adhesion. Not sure how big the area is, but if you scrape everything that is loose and peeling, then prime with guardz, then skimcoat, then prime again and paint you might stand a chance.

good luck!

Lharris 07-22-2013 04:16 PM

I'm experiencing the same problem...
 
I have stripped the walls of old wallpaper and tried to texture using joint compound. There are SEVERAL spots that began to bubble in spots "flake off" as I was applying the texture. I then thought that maybe I should try priming the walls first because, although they looked to be in good condition, they are several years old. But, I experienced the same thing (bubbling & flaking spots) when I began applying the Primer as well. Could this be leftover wallpaper glue causing this? Could it be that there is moisture in the walls that isn't visible to the eyes? These walls do not seem to be damp or moist to me but, that doesn't mean that they aren't...I'm now at a loss and a stand-still! I cannot afford to re-wall every room to make this problem go away. Are there any other options?

chrisn 07-22-2013 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lharris (Post 1219552)
I have stripped the walls of old wallpaper and tried to texture using joint compound. There are SEVERAL spots that began to bubble in spots "flake off" as I was applying the texture. I then thought that maybe I should try priming the walls first because, although they looked to be in good condition, they are several years old. But, I experienced the same thing (bubbling & flaking spots) when I began applying the Primer as well. Could this be leftover wallpaper glue causing this? Could it be that there is moisture in the walls that isn't visible to the eyes? These walls do not seem to be damp or moist to me but, that doesn't mean that they aren't...I'm now at a loss and a stand-still! I cannot afford to re-wall every room to make this problem go away. Are there any other options?


Could be left over PASTE residue. Prime with Gardz or an oil based primer and see what happens. If it is wet, you will need to correct that first before any paint or primer is going to stick.

ToolSeeker 07-25-2013 09:00 AM

Do you have any idea what they used to do the texture? Do you have a spot that you can sand the texture off then prime and paint ? I once read you can test for wallpaper paste residue by putting iodine in water and spraying a little bit on the wall if turns blue there is paste on the wall. I can look it up if you want to be sure.


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