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Old 01-06-2011, 06:52 PM   #16
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


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Old 01-07-2011, 03:35 PM   #17
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


Always go perpendicular to the framing member, with rare exceptions. If you were to stand them up, then every 4 feet your taper is going from floor to ceiling instead of working at a 4 foot level. If you take a straight 2x4 with some length to it, you can lay it on the middle of the wall and check your wall studs. It will tell you if your studs are in line. You can see if one stud sticks out farther than the others, then don't put your butt seam on that stud or you will have more problems. I would cut the 12 inches off of the top, then the taper is still workng at a 4 foot level. That piece then can be used for headers, usually, or legs (the narrow pieces on each side of a door) or for wraping windows or closets if you are doing that in drywall. But remember that if you cut it off of the top then you still have a tapered edge on the bottom, sometimes it will show if it is not mudded in (which is called killing the edge) or you don't use baseboard mouldings. Do not railroad your joints, stagger the joints. I keep my sheetrock about a 1/4 inch off of the floor. But 1/2 isn't bad. You should not let your sheetrock touch the floor if it is cement. It can draw moisture out of the cement if that is an issue.

I use 1 1/2 inch nails, that I tac it with if I don't have help. Then I use 1 1/4 inch drywall screws where ever I can, they work much better than nails. Make sure you don't have any clickers! Those are screws that will click as you run a drywall knife over the surface. All fasteners must be sunk in just enough to be covered with mud. Screw 12" patern in the field and every 6" on butt joints staggering. 8" to 12 " around top plate and base and corners.

Last edited by redmanblackdog; 01-07-2011 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:52 PM   #18
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


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Yes,in the User CP it has an ignore feature
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:22 PM   #19
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


There is a way to reduce the bulging of butt joints in horizontal instalation. Have the joints meet between the studs and there is a manufactured backer that has raised edges so that when the joints are screwed to it they are sucked in to provide a recessed area to accomodate the mud and tape. A good taper can get the but joint on studs down to an 1/8" bulge fanned out over 28". Hard to see and usually unnoticeable on the base board.
Horizontal instalation with staggered butts can also help to straighten out slightly crowned studs. A vertical butt joint on a crowned stud is just plain ugly and can get worse if the lumber still has drying to do which usually emphasises the crown.
Put the cut piece on the bottom and snug it up with a pannel lifter. The untapered edge on the bottom will make baseboard instalation easier as they will sit vertical when secured to the wall. No openings on the bottom if one is using miter joints and no shims to plum them up for a tight appearance
Check out the Wallboarder's Buddy to makr all your ripping and length cuts easier. You may be able to use the scraps if there are any heat runs to box in. Pannel lifters are an inexpensive valuble asset that give a nice tight seam. Don't lift to hard as it may compress the gupsum core and pop the paper off (see later post) adding to your tapers frustration as removal of paper will be necessary for a solid joint
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Old 03-19-2011, 01:28 AM   #20
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


Always horizontal.
Consider a typical 8 foot high wall 12 feet wide. If you go vertically there will be 16' of taped joints (8'x2). If you go horizontally there will be 12'. Plus you won't have to bend don to tape the joint it's all at waist height.
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Old 03-19-2011, 03:46 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by redmanblackdog View Post
Always go perpendicular to the framing member, with rare exceptions. If you were to stand them up, then every 4 feet your taper is going from floor to ceiling instead of working at a 4 foot level. If you take a straight 2x4 with some length to it, you can lay it on the middle of the wall and check your wall studs. It will tell you if your studs are in line. You can see if one stud sticks out farther than the others, then don't put your butt seam on that stud or you will have more problems. I would cut the 12 inches off of the top, then the taper is still workng at a 4 foot level. That piece then can be used for headers, usually, or legs (the narrow pieces on each side of a door) or for wraping windows or closets if you are doing that in drywall. But remember that if you cut it off of the top then you still have a tapered edge on the bottom, sometimes it will show if it is not mudded in (which is called killing the edge) or you don't use baseboard mouldings. Do not railroad your joints, stagger the joints. I keep my sheetrock about a 1/4 inch off of the floor. But 1/2 isn't bad. You should not let your sheetrock touch the floor if it is cement. It can draw moisture out of the cement if that is an issue.

I use 1 1/2 inch nails, that I tac it with if I don't have help. Then I use 1 1/4 inch drywall screws where ever I can, they work much better than nails. Make sure you don't have any clickers! Those are screws that will click as you run a drywall knife over the surface. All fasteners must be sunk in just enough to be covered with mud. Screw 12" patern in the field and every 6" on butt joints staggering. 8" to 12 " around top plate and base and corners.
I agree 100%....with wood framing always hang the board horizontal, or perpendicular to and across the joists or studs.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:12 AM   #22
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


that is a long debated, hotly argued topic amongst tradesmen.
I know it's more industry standard to go horizontal, for a few reasons (some of which dont make much sense to me)
However, I always go vertically for a few reasons (which probably wont make much sense either)
1: I hate finishing butt joints. you get more of a hump in the wall from a butt joint than the occasional uneven stud, it seems to me
2: I hate traveling sideways with a knife full of mud. it falls all over the floor.
3: I dont understand how guys say it makes more seams going vertically...
the butt joints will always add up to more seam footage and those butt joints take longer, I dont care how good you are with finishing.

So, someone please tell me how a compressed board made of powder, 1/2' thick, and covered in paper, is going to "lace the studs together better" or "provide more strength" ???
drywall takes the shape of whats underneath it, no matter which way you go. The "grain" of drywall? Jeeez, I just realized how poor of a product drywall actually is. It's sort of a terrible solution for a wall covering. So is paneling. My god, we're living in plastic covered houses, built with with glueboard subfloor, powderboard walls, chemicalboard decks, and vinyl (plastic) floors and siding, pvc (plastic) piping, and pressed plastic trim.
sorry, got carried away there.
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:35 PM   #23
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


Quote:
1: I hate finishing butt joints. you get more of a hump in the wall from a butt joint than the occasional uneven stud, it seems to me
i agree

Quote:
2: I hate traveling sideways with a knife full of mud. it falls all over the floor.
I agree

Quote:
3: I dont understand how guys say it makes more seams going vertically...
the butt joints will always add up to more seam footage and those butt joints take longer, I dont care how good you are with finishing.
The idea is you unless you are in a room over 12' in any dimension, you can run 1 sheet to cover the entire length of a wall by using 12' sheets. In a room larger than 12' in any one dimension, you add only the one vertical joint for walls up to 24' in length.

As an example, a wall 12' long, 8' high would require 40' of joint when laying horizontal.

If laying vertical, that number would increase by a huge percentage all the way up to 42'. Yes, a mere 2 feet difference in total joint length. I suppose if I was building a 100,000sq/ft building with 300 rooms it would be an important amount but in a few rooms, just not seeing the gain as a big deal.

To me, the difference is minimal but the greater detriment to the horizontal is an unsupported joint at 4' all the way around the room. I would much rather have every joint supported at a stud and that is why I prefer vertical.

The argument about the mudder not having to bend over with the single joint at 4' is ridiculous. If the guy can't bend over to run from ceiling to floor, maybe it's time to retire.

On top of that, laying horizontal is actually more work because you have to lift the upper piece. If you set the top piece first, it is a lot of weight because you hold it until you get it tacked in place. If you set the bottom piece first, you still have to lift the piece and set it on top of the lower piece.


Quote:
So, someone please tell me how a compressed board made of powder, 1/2' thick, and covered in paper, is going to "lace the studs together better" or "provide more strength" ???
sheet rock does add a structural element to the wall. By tying more studs together with one contiguous piece, it does add rigidity to those studs tied together as one unit. I give on that one argument.

Quote:
drywall takes the shape of whats underneath it, no matter which way you go. The "grain" of drywall? Jeeez, I just realized how poor of a product drywall actually is. It's sort of a terrible solution for a wall covering. So is paneling. My god, we're living in plastic covered houses, built with with glueboard subfloor, powderboard walls, chemicalboard decks, and vinyl (plastic) floors and siding, pvc (plastic) piping, and pressed plastic trim.
sorry, got carried away there.
the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:35 PM   #24
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


last job I was on, the ceiling was 8'6, and the wall was 14' long.
their door and floorplan didnt allow for 10' or 12' sheets to be carried in
My customer (oh jeez, a real treat to deal with) was "concerned" that we were hanging vertically, and said "I've only seen it done the other way"

that's what brought me to this topic, I can see the advantages if the wall is exactly 8x12, but how so many people think horizontal is the only right way is beyond me.... of course, one of my main trades is tile, so I deal with globs of drywall mud dried on the floor, and humps in walls are a bigger deal to me than a painter.
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:37 PM   #25
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


hey thanks Nap, I didnt think anyone would actually agree with me, and I hated to think I was the only one who saw those downfalls
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:10 PM   #26
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


Are you guys EVER going to finally learn that there is now no longer any reason to have to hassle with butt joint humps ever again?

Good grief, I've preached BUTTBOARDS till I'm blue in the face, but only a small handful of people seem sharp enough to catch on.
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:16 PM   #27
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Are you guys EVER going to finally learn that there is now no longer any reason to have to hassle with butt joint humps ever again?

Good grief, I've preached BUTTBOARDS till I'm blue in the face, but only a small handful of people seem sharp enough to catch on.
there is also a tool to crunch the edge somehow as well. Never used it because I don't do much rock. It's easier to just stand it up and with my old back, it's less strain on my back to stand it as well.

but there is still the problem of unsupported joints all around the room though with a horizontal application.
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:30 PM   #28
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


Anyone want to hear what I consider one of the most important reasons for hanging boards horizontally? Of course this only matters in homes that HAVE to be as close to perfect as possible.

It is simply to give you a good, long clean ceiling-to-wall intersection line...... and you do it all with that one top piece of board edge.
No good hanger will fasten up close to the very edges of a ceiling lid. That last portion is left 'floating' so that neither "truss uplift" nor uneven top plates (for joists) will contribute to ruining the final, clean wall-to-ceiling intersection.

The top wall board lifts and supports the ceiling pieces for the full span of its 12' length as you install it.... straight and cleanly. It gives you a line that will never betray you with a roller coaster of shadow dips and rises.

Trying to do that with a bunch of individual vertical butt ends is one tough job. Oh, it CAN be done, but it will have you pulling your hair out before you finally get all of them to support the ceiling in a perfectly straight intersection line.

And heaven help you if your vertical boards aren't perfectly plumb! The 4' end will support the ceiling lid only on one corner if that vertical board is out of plumb even a sixteenth in a level length.

Ever seen, or worse yet, tried to install crown molding on a ceiling that undulates up and down for a nice long length like, say... 20 or thirty feet? It looks awful. Hanging horizontally makes keeping that ceiling line straight SO much easier because you usually only have one joint to have to match up there at the ceiling.... if any. And that is very easily done by simply lining up the bottom edges of those two top boards.

BTW, there is an easy way to not only support that top piece while screwing it, but also for getting it adjusted 'just right' for fastening. And this is not a mechanical crank lift. And one man can do it all by himself.

(I show this in the following post.)

I WILL admit that you do still have to lift that top board up four feet. I haven't yet figured out how to get around that without a lift.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:39 PM   #29
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Just for grins, here is the simple "support/adjuster" setup.

Simply measure down 48-1/2" and attach two 3' 2x4's as shown. Use one large screw as a pivot on each 2x4.

All you have to do is push down on the long ends of the 2x4's to raise the sheet of D/W to where you want it.

And, "Yes", this can be used with or without buttboards if you just insist on wanting to fight with that butt bulge.

("No", the buttboards do not go on till you get the sheet screwed into place..... They are just here to show you what a buttboard looks like.)
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal-d-w-adjuster-supports.jpg  
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:58 AM   #30
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Hang drywall vertical or horizontal


"So, someone please tell me how a compressed board made of powder, 1/2' thick, and covered in paper, is going to "lace the studs together better" or "provide more strength" ???
drywall takes the shape of whats underneath it, no matter which way you go. The "grain" of drywall?" -------

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...U1o3kfoOlKl-7Q

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