Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Drywall & Plaster

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-01-2011, 11:31 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10
Share |
Default

Frost on joints in garage


I have a detached unheated garage. On all the drywall joints, and where all the studs are, and on all the electrical outlets, switches, and lights, frost buildup happens. It is all over the door as well. Any thoughts as to what would cause this? I suspect the builder did not add any vapour barrier.

The ceiling, aside from the joints at the walls, is not too bad, but at this time there's no attic door for me to investigate. The roof has some snow cover, but there's no dams or icicles on the roof, and the eaves are ventilated with the holed siding. There are also a couple of roof vents on the top of the peak as well.

It wasn't too apparently a couple of years ago when I bought the house. I toured the house and we did the inspection in -30c weather. Last year, it appeared a bit, but not too bad. This year, it's pretty bad and the drywall tape is starting to fall from the walls. Even the garage door has some problems, but I'm not worried about that.

The garage is not heated, but it's probably insulated given that it never drops more than -10 below, even when it's -40 or so outside. There are however some gaps around the main garage door at the tracks.

I live in Calgary so we see all kinds of weather, however it's not really ever "humid" here. I've attached some pictures for reference. Thanks all!
Attached Thumbnails
Frost on joints in garage-100_4612.jpg   Frost on joints in garage-100_4617.jpg   Frost on joints in garage-100_4624.jpg  


Last edited by Miko; 01-01-2011 at 11:35 PM.
Miko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 08:33 AM   #2
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,738
Default

Frost on joints in garage


A classic example of the "thermal short-circuiting" from the studs. This also reduces the effective WALL insulation (R-value) of fiberglass (if you have it) from 15% to 50%. - Steel studs are very notorious for this loss.

If there is enough interior moisture, it will create frost in the areas with high conductivity.

concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 09:17 AM   #3
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Default

Frost on joints in garage


What's the humidity reading in there and in your house? and at what temperatures did you take those humdity readings? Do you store your car there? Sounds like the builder forgot the housewrap, the insulation and/or the vapour barrier - or all three. Try keeping a fan going in there to keep the air circulating, The redo the whole thing (the drywall is toast).
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 11:00 AM   #4
Phoenix
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 79
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Ahh, Mike Holmes would have a field day in that place.
Axecutioner-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 11:08 AM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Hi everyone thanks for your help. When the weather gets better this week I am going to check for the house wrap and take a piece of drywall out of the interior to see what's behind the wall and let you know what's there.

Regarding the humidity - it's not very humid in Calgary in general, say compared to Toronto. We're more dry like a desert as we're not around any large bodies of water. In the summer it's rare to go to 30c (dry heat, no humidex usually) and then in the winter -20 or so but known to hit -30c to -50c before the wind chill factor during a bad cold snap.

The only heat sources in the garage is when we park our cars in there after going out and then what heat radiates from the engines.
Miko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 11:38 AM   #6
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,738
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Even though you have a dry cold (similar to here, but only a little colder) your car can pick up some snow or ice under it and it is a source of moisture when it melts. and that will condense/freeze on a cold surface.

We get your weather here (Alberta Clipper) that drops a couple of inches of dry fluff one a predictable time schedule, followed by cold weather. - Unless we get some of the nasty southern winter weather, but that is usually south and east of us. You know when it is nice since the snow (if it is on the sidewalk/driveway) crunches very loudly.

Dick
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 01:02 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Hi all

So - I took a piece of drywall out, and there is vapour barrier and pink insulation under it. On the outside, I see black tar paper under the siding. The roof vents are covered in snow, not sure if that means anything. Also yes we get some snow in the garage from the car when we park it. Not sure though, given our climate and the detached garages here are all cookie cutter, aside from some being shingled with shakes (mine is asphalt) more people would experience the same problems, there must be something different with my garage?

Thanks
Miko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 01:10 PM   #8
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Peak in and tell us what the studs are made of...
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 01:27 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Studs are wood
Miko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 01:42 PM   #10
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,738
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Mico -

Sorry, but I did not read the original post close enough and assumed an attached garage that is warmer and the air can hold more moisture to condense/freeze on cold areas. In any event, you have moisture in the air to condense/freeze on the points of high conductivity. XPS insulation (pink or blue foam) does not exhibit the cold spots and thermal short circuiting, but you cannot change that now.

Dick
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 01:45 PM   #11
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10
Default

Frost on joints in garage


If I were to tear down the drywall and take out the fibreglass insulation and replace it with that spray on stuff and redrywall, would that help at all? That spray stuff is supposed to be a vapour barrier in itself so plastic is not needed. I am not too familiar with the stuff though. As someone mentioned above.. Holmes seems to use it a lot.
Miko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 03:58 PM   #12
Phoenix
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 79
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Have you talked to any local contractors about it? Maybe it is something that one of them has seen before. I wish i had any good advice for you but I'm in Phoenix & hell we don't even get below freezing so our codes are very different, I've never seen vapor barrier except for on TV lol.
Axecutioner-B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 04:02 PM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Yeah.. haven't spoken to anyone really about it except my dad, it's just good to have a few opinions before talking to a contractor about it so I sort of know what's going on and don't get taken for a ride. I'll probably gut it all myself but pay someone who likes to drywall to do all that fun stuff themselves. It really baffles me though, if I really needed a circulation fan or something who knows what, I would have thought this would be a more common problem in this part of Canada.
Miko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 04:25 PM   #14
Member
 
concretemasonry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota - Latitude 45.057 Longitude -93.074
Posts: 3,738
Default

Frost on joints in garage


As long as you have studs with no insulation barrier, the studs are the weak point and allow conductivity not matter what stuff is between them.

Dick
concretemasonry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 06:02 PM   #15
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Default

Frost on joints in garage


Yeah, but to get that much condensation/ice, you need really high relative humidity in that garage. It's around 45% RH outside in Calgary these days, same as us, at around freezing temperatures, so the inside must have a lot of moisture just hanging around and condensing everywhere. Close to 85% I'd say. It would help getting a reading in there...

So, lower the RH inside by using a heater and/or a fan. That'll patch it but something doesn't make sense if he has an air barrier under the siding, then fibregalss insulation then vapour barrier. Too high RH is the symptom, I'm not sure the cause...

__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help My Admiral Refrigerator is leaking water Cuwillis Appliances 10 03-25-2014 08:21 AM
The 12-Gauge Garage Jack Olsen Project Showcase 28 07-08-2012 10:21 PM
Raising up my garage jimmyfloyd Building & Construction 5 09-17-2009 10:39 PM
Garage Wiring issues jimmyfloyd Electrical 20 06-08-2009 02:57 PM
Frost Build Up On Interior Garage Wall richw Building & Construction 8 01-06-2008 09:47 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.