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Old 11-12-2011, 01:30 AM   #1
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


I starting putting up a metal lath over my drywall to install stone veneer over my fireplace. All the manufactures instructions said on the veneer is use a metal lath and scratch coat. Reading online I see some people recommend to wrap the wall in tar paper. Is this really needed?

I'm only doing one face, the stone isn't wrapping the fireplace at all. I just feel like its overkill. I live in Bellingham, WA. We have 4 seasons. I read that the biggest reason for the tar paper is to keep the bond from the cement and wall seperate so it can expand without cracking, but since its drywall it should be fine right?

Thanks for your advice ahead of time.

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Old 11-12-2011, 10:22 AM   #2
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


You don't need tar paper or metal lath or scratch coat. Just install your stone to your drywall using modified tile thinset mortar. Next day mortar the joints with brick mortar.

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Old 11-12-2011, 11:16 AM   #3
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


Thanks for the reply. My contractor friend said something similar. I wasn't planning on having any joints. Its sort of a stack stone veneer. The mortar I was using is Quikrete type S. My only concern is that not reenforcing the drywall someone is by the fireplace and yanks down on a piece of stone and it comes right off. Its odd because it seems like there is the manufacturer way of doing things and then what contractors say is ok. I don't want anything falling off. Heres a shot.




As long as you guys think it'll be strong enough to hold even with some pressure on it then I'll just go ahead without the lath and scratch coat.
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Old 11-12-2011, 11:29 AM   #4
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


You can not use "Type S" in place of "modified thinset mortar". Two entirely different products with entirely different make up.
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Old 11-12-2011, 11:56 AM   #5
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


Should I be using something like this?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_39326-73069-...r|1&facetInfo=

Laticrete Polymier - modified thinset mortar

Then just butter back my veneer and stick it on? I'm sorry for all the questions. I've just been getting so many different views on the subject.
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:27 PM   #6
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


Quote:
Should I be using something like this?
http://www.lowes.com/pd_39326-73069-...r|1&facetInfo=
Yup.

Quote:
Then just butter back my veneer and stick it on? I'm sorry for all the questions.
Yup.

Quote:
I've just been getting so many different views on the subject.
Not sure what that means. There are only two methods used to do this successfully. I have lost count of the number of fireplaces I have done like this during more than thirty years. I did the mesh/scratch/mortar method one time, never again.

The thinset method has the blessing of the faux stone manufacturers I have talked to but they want to sell you a "system" not just the stones. Buying your own thinset takes money out of their pockets.
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:34 PM   #7
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


Yeah I think a lot of my issues are listening to lowes. If you watch the lowes video here and it literally is what I was planning on doing. They even show using quikrete type s.

The only thing that the manufacturer instructions differ from what you're saying is ... "installation on smooth non porous surface is not recommended" Which in my mind means a scratch coat would be required.

I guess I take down the lath for now and try a little with the modified thinset and see how it goes.
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:43 PM   #8
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


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The only thing that the manufacturer instructions differ from what you're saying is ... "installation on smooth non porous surface is not recommended" Which in my mind means a scratch coat would be required.
No it is not recommended using their products. That method won't work using their products. That method will however work great using modified thinset mortar. Their system is a helluva lot of extra work for no good reason.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:39 PM   #9
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


I'm reviving this topic because my contractor is getting ready to install the stacked stone veneer to our fireplace wall. Our fireplace has no bumpout. It is essentially one flat wall of our family room with a firebox in it. Thus, the stone will go on the existing flat wall from hearth to 9' ceiling and, because the fireplace does not protrude from the wall, there will not even be any corner pieces. (We may end up covering the sawn ends of the stone with some sort of wood molding. We're not sure yet.)

I would like to get a general consensus from tile/stone professionals that the stone can be mounted directly onto the drywall without cement board, tar paper or lath being laid down first. The reason I ask this is that I already had a difference of opinion with my contractor over construction of our shower. I insisted he add a roll-on membrane so there would be some protection against moisture beyond the cement board/tape/thinset/tile that he was planning to install. He agreed to do this, but only because I insisted.

Based on the shower episode, I am assuming he will take the easiest route possible to putting up the fireplace stone and that is to apply it directly to the drywall with thinset. I would very much appreciate confirmation from other professionals that this method is OK and a chunk of stone will not someday fall out on my head as I am inserting a log into the fireplace. Thanks!
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:01 PM   #10
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


I think the thin set would be fine. The cement board is mostly for moisture and mold in wet areas, yes it does give a little more bite. Stone veneer is not that heavy usually. Before cement board we would put large tile including marble on walls with out problems, and they were heavier than the veneer will be. Don't cheap out on the thin set.
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:02 PM   #11
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


Wow this is an old topic. That job was the first tiling work I had ever done. It came out great. Since then I have done (2) shower enclosures, (4) Floors, and a ton of other DIY remodeling projects.

Everyone has a different opinion on what should be done and how they do it. When it comes down to it "FOLLOW MANUFACTURER INSTRUCTIONS". If your contractor states otherwise I would be concerned.

Quote:
The reason I ask this is that I already had a difference of opinion with my contractor over construction of our shower. I insisted he add a roll-on membrane so there would be some protection against moisture beyond the cement board/tape/thinset/tile that he was planning to install. He agreed to do this, but only because I insisted.
If this is true and he didn't install a membrane UNDER THE CEMENT BOARD ditch him now. It is vital to have a water membrane in all shower enclosures. Water does permeate grout and cement board is only water resistant not waterproof. So if he installed one underneath the cement board and told you didn't need an additional roll on one, then he is correct, but it can't hurt to have the extra water protection. Its just extra money.

Anyways .... back on to the topic of the stone veneer. For ceiling heights of 8' to 9' you generally can install stone veneer on a drywall with a polymer modified thinset. No lathe and scratch coat is needed. But as always CHECK THE MANUFACTURER INSTRUCTIONS. My fireplace I ended up installing directly on the drywall and it worked fine. I decided this after checking the box of veneer...duh ... and it stated that 9' ceiling height and under can be installed directly to drywall without a lathe and scratch coat. Anyways now when I do any projects tiling, concrete work, etc... I always read the box for installation methods. If you you want to see pictures from this project look on my FB profile.

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.russ...0076398&type=3
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24...3634696_zpid/#

Check out my other albums for other tiling jobs and the whole remodel we did.

Finished product (sorry the image is kind of blurry) I did a custom concrete top for the base

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Old 12-06-2013, 08:47 PM   #12
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


Hi,
I had chimney service technician tell me that our wood fireplace can't have the stone veneer applied directly to the drywall. He stated that the drywall must be peeled back 8 inches from the opening of the firebox, with that area of veneer applied to some other material (?). This fireplace is from the original builder (Centex Homes), and can be used as gas or wood burning. WE are converting it to wood burning.

Can an experienced contractor, preferably an inspector, please chime in on this. I find it hard to believe it would have been approved if not up to code originally - especially around a fireplace and the possible hazards associated with that.

appreciate any and all feeback.

Thanks.
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Old 12-08-2013, 12:31 PM   #13
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


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Originally Posted by Sharkboy View Post
Hi,
I had chimney service technician tell me that our wood fireplace can't have the stone veneer applied directly to the drywall. He stated that the drywall must be peeled back 8 inches from the opening of the firebox, with that area of veneer applied to some other material (?). This fireplace is from the original builder (Centex Homes), and can be used as gas or wood burning. WE are converting it to wood burning.

Can an experienced contractor, preferably an inspector, please chime in on this. I find it hard to believe it would have been approved if not up to code originally - especially around a fireplace and the possible hazards associated with that.

appreciate any and all feeback.

Thanks.

He is probably correct for your area.

There must be a set back from the firebox to any combustible material with either a gas, or wood burning fireplace, although that distance can vary by the area of the country you're in.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:17 PM   #14
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


I am applying a natural ledgestone veneer composed of quartzite finished slate to a bar and pillar in my home. The bar wall and post are already sheetrocked and cornerbeaded, so I was hoping to stone over without adding durock. The manufacturer recommends type-s, but I am worried about the weight of the stone panels (6x24) ripping off the sheetrock. Has anyone done this over sheetrock?
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Old 12-18-2014, 07:45 AM   #15
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Fireplace stone veneer, do I really need tar paper?


I have done it over Sheetrock but didn't stick the stone right to the drywall. I nailed up the metal mesh (forgot what that stuff is called) when you hang it as you slide your hand down from ceiling to floor you want it to bite. Going from floor up should be smooth if that makes sense. Then skim coated with concrete and put in groves before it dried. Next day butter and stick your stone. If indoor you do not need a water barrier like tar paper between mesh and drywall.

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