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Old 03-23-2011, 05:53 PM   #31
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The grid I mentioned building for correcting a sag was like 2' wide and maybe 4' long with one 2x4 in the middle. Jacked or jammed against the ceiling this kept the dw up against the ceiling joists while I installed screws. This spreads the pressure on the dw and allows several screws to be installed. Less chance of tear through then with the single screw at a time method as the dw is against the joist.

In your case where glue has been used, you might want to be careful anyway as the dried glued will prolly not let the dw go all the way against the joist.

Might be something to consider.

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Old 03-23-2011, 09:02 PM   #32
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I wish I would have thought of that. Kind of obvious actually. Oh well

Anyway a little time out here. The paste wasn't dry enough to sand today so I tried my hand on the corner chips. I purchased the brown bag of Durabond and mixed up a batch. I found it extremely difficult to work with. I ended up calling it a night. I was hoping you folks would have some tips....
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:55 AM   #33
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In one of the pictures, it looks like the old dw is floating and is not attached to the ceiling joist where the new dw is attached. It should be attached, not left floating.

The gap between the new and the old looks excessive to me.

Need a few more screws in the new rock, unless you have put more in since the picture was taken.

I hope you cut the ragged edges of the paper off before you mudded.

Some would have primed the area to be mudded that had paint on it.

I have never used Duroc, but I think it should have dried overnight, unless it was too watery or too thick.

Wish you luck on fixing the difference between the new dw and old near the corner with mud. I doubt I would attempt that. I'd end up feathering that half across the room adding more weight to what looks like is already sagging from the shadow on the ceiling.

I might would go all the way to the wall/corner and repainted the wall too.

If there is that much difference and the new dw is the same thickness as the old, looks to me like there is sag even that close to the wall.

You might can shim the new to bring it down even with the old, but if anyone ever tries to push the rock up and reinstall screws, they will wonder why that area (shimmed area) will not go up to the joists.

I noticed what looked like a stain on the wall at the corner. What is going on there, moisture? When you get new paint on the ceiling, is that going to jump out at you?

Just some thoughts on the situation. Good luck.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:48 AM   #34
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While "floating interior angles" are not required, they are 'permitted' in section 4.9.1 (I think that's it.. on page 7 or 8) of the GA 216 2010 literature.
And for very good reason. Floating interior angles help prevent a big problem with not only 'truss uplift', but also with wall deflection from the lack of stability inherent in the cheaper and cheaper methods of framing prevalent in the industry today.

You will end up with a much better drywall job years down the road (after climate changes have moved your lumber around a few times) if you install your boards with floating interior angles at not only the ceiling-to-wall joints, but also at the wall-to-wall corners.

This means that you should put no fastenters within about 7" (max) of the wall on ceiling boards, and no closer than around 8" (max) from the board corner angles (that's for both ceiling and wall joints) on the wall boards.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurriken View Post
I wish I would have thought of that. Kind of obvious actually. Oh well

Anyway a little time out here. The paste wasn't dry enough to sand today so I tried my hand on the corner chips. I purchased the brown bag of Durabond and mixed up a batch. I found it extremely difficult to work with. I ended up calling it a night. I was hoping you folks would have some tips....
It sounds contradictory to common sense, but try mixing it a little on the stiff side.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:42 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
While "floating interior angles" are not required, they are 'permitted' in section 4.9.1 (I think that's it.. on page 7 or 8) of the GA 216 2010 literature.
And for very good reason. Floating interior angles help prevent a big problem with not only 'truss uplift', but also with wall deflection from the lack of stability inherent in the cheaper and cheaper methods of framing prevalent in the industry today.

You will end up with a much better drywall job years down the road (after climate changes have moved your lumber around a few times) if you install your boards with floating interior angles at not only the ceiling-to-wall joints, but also at the wall-to-wall corners.

This means that you should put no fastenters within about 7" (max) of the wall on ceiling boards, and no closer than around 8" (max) from the board corner angles (that's for both ceiling and wall joints) on the wall boards.
Agreed about the corner angles. The part I referred to is at the narrow end of his repair. Looks like it goes just past the joist, and the old dw is left floating. I am saying that old dw should not be left floating.

Maybe it is not, but it looks to be floating not attached to anything.

Actually, I am not so sure I would not have gone all the way to the corner angles, since there is a strain on the wall anyway and just repainted the wall.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:52 AM   #37
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I looked at the picture again. Looks like the old was cut out past the joists on each end instead of in the middle of the joists, and there are now screws or nails in the old dw, which tells me it is just floating on its own.

I guess if there is no joist or backer board there, there is no reason for fasteners of any kind. There is nothing there for them to bite into.

Oh well, good luck. Going to be a learning experience.

BY the time you sleep on the sofa for a couple of nights, you might decide to hire someone.

Just kidding, you can do it, if you are persistant and determined.
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Old 03-24-2011, 05:13 PM   #38
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Yeah, the whole repair could have used a bit more attention to detail.....
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:07 PM   #39
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EDIT: First paragraph was better left unsaid! - Ken

As I said I had never done a big repair like this. Tuesday night I puttied it up and as of noon today it still was not dry. Last night a good friend of mine called and he knew I was working on the living room so he offered to come over and help. He was a pipe fitter for many years and learned how to drywall by watching and talking to dry-wallers. He also likes to help other people. He has done it many times.

Today he came over and looked at my work. He had a strange look on his face but he didn't say anything. He said it was OK...er...lets see what we can do. Sanding led to scraping, and scraping led to probing the cracks. He politely asked if he could peel a bit of the tape away and look. I said "look, I want to do this right so do what you have to do". He peeled a little bit away. I grabbed it and pulled it all the way off. The long/short? We then removed the board and he saw what you saw. He explained how it worked and that it would crack later, so we went and bought a new piece of DW and cut the hole on both ends down to the next stud. Like you said, so that half was overlapping. We also used a straight edge to make an even rectangle. We popped four screws in each end and mounted a new piece of board. BTW, it really was 1/2 inch board.






As you can see it is much more even now. The gap on the right is a bit bigger than we hoped but he said we could live with it. We taped it up and used the brown bag Durabond to fill it.




Sometimes you learn things the hard way. We will put joint compound over the Durabond to finish it. We also shored up the surrounding area with more screws. He said "If it was me...I would add a lot more screws especially near the nail pops. I hemmed and hawed and he said "Do it now or do it later"! I did it. I did three complete joists. and am debating if I should do more. My wife thinks I'm making work for myself. The thing is In some places I actually felt the ceiling rising up to the stud. Maybe I did create more work but I surely didn't hurt anything. It is also ten times easier with two people.

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Old 03-24-2011, 08:27 PM   #40
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Oh well, good luck. Going to be a learning experience.

BY the time you sleep on the sofa for a couple of nights, you might decide to hire someone.

Just kidding, you can do it, if you are persistant and determined.


You call that bashing?? Did you read the last sentence?

We knew you were not experienced at this,hence "learning experience".

I feel likke we were trying to help you some trouble down the road.

You are right about one thing, the whole thing resulted in some bashing (of the ones trying to help) imo.

Glad you got it all figured out.

I'm through.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:48 PM   #41
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Look it's a long been a long few days I'm tired. I'm am also under the gun but that isn't your problem. I'm not trying to start trouble. I'm sorry.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:20 PM   #42
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You did your best. And it really wasn't all that bad. As I said, the whole repair simply needed a bit more attention to detail. You couldn't have known what specific details. Thankfully, you found someone who did know.

Had any of us been there and been able to look up there and put hands on the situation, it would have been (as it turned out to be) a relatively easy fix. Even now, there might have been a couple of more touches that would bring things around easier. But that is all water under the bridge, and you are well on your way to an acceptable patch job.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:05 PM   #43
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Thanks Willie. The thing is I'm pretty sure, now that I understand it better, that I ended up doing a lot of what you all were saying and I was trying but I just wasn't getting it. Sometimes you say things you'd like to take back. What can I say?

The truth is I learned an awful lot more screwing this thing up than if everything had "accidentally" gone right.

I read earlier that you hadn't used Durabond before. We only used it to fill the gaps and a light first coat. The nice thing is that it dried fast and is very firm. We were worried that it might freeze from the attic side because temperatures are dropping tonight. I suspect that may be why the normal joint compound didn't dry completely after 48 hours.
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Old 03-24-2011, 10:27 PM   #44
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Quote:
The truth is I learned an awful lot more screwing this thing up than if everything had "accidentally" gone right.
Now you are getting what I meant by a "learning experience".
Been there, done that.
I was told I used too much mud by my mother-in-law of all people! Teed me off.

Hell, you could hang a coat hanger on my first patch on a wall. Not really, but it was very thick. I left it that way for a while to remind me.

Someone had put a foot through the wall. Still can't remember exactly why she did that. Actually, I do.

But, I was "persistant and determined" to learn it. I am fairly confident with it now.
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Old 03-25-2011, 07:02 PM   #45
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you have a tape coat this is mud on covering gap then paper put over mud then wiped tight usually done with a 5" or 6" knife the second coat is the builder coat this actually floats the mudd to fill up and cover the tape usually done with a 10" broad knife the third coat is a skim coat mudd is thinned down and applied using a 12" knife this fills up air bubbles kills small edges and minor flaws in the mudd after ech coat has dryed go to next step sand last then touch up usually you can use a 5" to touch up metal bead has to be nailed on if it is clinched and tagged you will have problems all the time with sheet rock mudd popping off the bead re-air it correctly tear off and apply new make sure to secure firmly to walls then mudd properly

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