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Old 05-29-2013, 08:32 AM   #31
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Drywall Identification? Asbestos?


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Originally Posted by dstallworth View Post
Are there test kits to determine if asbestos is present in material or does someone have to come and test it where it's at.

when was asbestos band in the u.s.a.

can the city say what areas might be more ikely to have asbestos

or just anything built before the eighty's suspect

and can a diy'fer safely remove asbestos....if so where can one get the supplies needed...and at what cost
Yes, it is called a slide and a microscope. You get a picture of what Asbestos looks like under a microscope, and compare it to what you are seeing on the slide.

You do have to leave the fiber catching device in the space after the demo, so it can collect any airborne fibers that are settling towards the floor. Doing it during demo, you will get nothing.

Even without demo, you just have to get enough of a thin sliver of the material, that can be seen under a microscope, to determine what is the makeup.

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Old 05-29-2013, 09:24 AM   #32
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Drywall Identification? Asbestos?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dstallworth View Post
Are there test kits to determine if asbestos is present in material or does someone have to come and test it where it's at.

when was asbestos band in the u.s.a.
can the city say what areas might be more ikely to have asbestos
or just anything built before the eighty's suspect

t

I don't know of any tests you can buy, you typically send a small sample out to be tested.

It is banned from building insulation and many things, but it's not completely banned:

Quote:
Many people mistakenly believe that asbestos was banned with the creation of OSHA in the early 1970’s. Unfortunately, however, the United States is actually one of the few industrialized nations in the world which has NOT acted to ban asbestos entirely.


Over 60 countries have banned the use of asbestos including Australia, New Zealand, Egypt, Iceland, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Hungary, Greece, United Kingdom and most of the European Union. In fact, countries all over the world have begun to recognize the devastating impact of asbestos.
In the United States, however, asbestos continues to be used in products and materials such as gaskets, friction products, roofing materials, fireproofing materials and various other consumer products in varying degrees.
http://www.mesothelioma.com/

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and can a diy'fer safely remove asbestos....if so where can one get the supplies needed...and at what cost
I would be very wary of removing and disposing of this yourself, there is also the issue of the legality of knowingly disposing of this in the trash since it IS a hazardous waste. Disposing of it in the normal trash also exposes anyone else who might come in contact with it to the stuff.

A developer here was sentenced to jail for improperly disposing of asbestos:

Bob Knapp sentenced to 41 months for Equitable Building asbestos



Developer Bob Knapp is expected to serve slightly less than three years in federal prison for his role at the head of a conspiracy to ignore federal asbestos regulations during a three-year renovation project at the Equitable Building in downtown Des Moines.
Knapp, who pleaded guilty to two charges in February, was sentenced today to 41 months behind bars.
Federal and state authorities say it was Knapp who pushed to cut corners on the Equitable renovation and dispose of asbestos-containing insulation and tiles without following government-required safety procedures.
Paul Wilson, a longtime Equitable Building engineer, testified this morning that Knapp paid him to work 10-hour shifts on the weekends, with no overtime, to remove pipe coverings and hide them in a dumpster. Court documents say the improper activity took place between 2005 and 2008.


Wilson, Knapp and construction supervisor Russ Coco took pains not to ever use the word “asbestos” in public, Wilson testified. Instead, they referred to the need to remove “the product.” That was done, Wilson said, “so that the tenants wouldn’t hear about it and word wouldn’t get around the building.”
Assistant U.S. Attorney Debra Scorpiniti called Knapp “an incorrigible defendant” who had been warned before about asbestos regulations during his previous renovation of the Suites at 800 Locust.
“The motive here is nothing other than pure greed,” she said. “Here you have a situation where someone has superior knowledge and is taking it upon himself to make decisions for other people” about their safety.


Justin Cannon, a $13.50-per-hour construction worker who testified that he helped remove asbestos-containing material and went home wearing clothes caked with construction-related dust.
“If I get sick that’s one thing,” Cannon said in court. “But in 15 years, if one of my kids gets sick, how do I look them in the face? I doubt Bob is going to call and set up a big concert if one of my kids get sick.”
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:00 AM   #33
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Drywall Identification? Asbestos?


RWolff, if you notice, the person that hired the other person got in trouble for not paying fair wages, which in turn brought to light the other activities.

As a homeowner, there is really going to be very little material is most modern homes, unless it is one of those with asbestos siding or shingles, or even has a boiler with the old asbestost wrap. Then you need to call in the professionals.

As for getting back on topic, doubtful there is any matter in that gyprock that contains even a microfram of asbestos.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:27 PM   #34
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Drywall Identification? Asbestos?


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Originally Posted by dstallworth View Post
Are there test kits to determine if asbestos is present in material or does someone have to come and test it where it's at. There are no test kits available for a homeowner to self evaluate asbestos. Samples of materials must be sent to a lab equipped for phase contrast microscopy (PCM). Other filamenticious fibers mimic asbestos and the untrained eye cannot determine the differences. Usually a small sample of the suspect material is removed and placed in container which the lab will process for identification. Air sampling is a test for airborne fibers and is run before starting abatement, during abatement to insure workers are using proper protective equipment and procedures, and after completion and clean up as clearance samples, to insure that the abatement and clean up were properly handled.

when was asbestos band in the u.s.a. Asbestos was never officially banned in the U.S.. The U.S. EPA attempted a ban in the late 1970s, but it was overturned in U.S. Superior Court. The court ruled that the EPA did not have the authority to ban it, only to regulate hazardous discharge of fibers and the disposition of asbestos waste. See NESHAP laws for more information. Most companies removed asbestos voluntarily from products wherever possible by 1982. The U.S. still imports asbestos by the ton for use in certain non-friable products.

can the city say what areas might be more ikely to have asbestos

or just anything built before the eighty's suspect There is no registry for asbestos. It can show up almost anywhere, but is more likely in certain products. Boiler and high temperature pipe insulation, breeching=very likely, Floor coverings and mastics manufactured before 1982= hit or miss, more likely in 9x9 floor tiles, but I've seen it in 12x12 tiles. Acoustical tiles= hit or miss, Plaster and drywall = less likely but still seen in places. I abated 160 apartments built in the late 1960s with asbestos in the drywall. Vermiculite insulation=very likely. Cast siding, transite sheet and pipe=almost always, but not considered friable unless damaged. Caulking and glazing putty=very often found. The list goes on.

and can a diy'fer safely remove asbestos....if so where can one get the supplies needed...and at what cost
There are no laws preventing a homeowner from removing his own asbestos. Properly trained and equipped, anybody could remove asbestos properly. But to keep from contaminating your home, you'd better know what you are dealing with. Done improperly, asbestos fibers can continue to be reintoduced into the air where occupants will continue to inhale them. (Talk about your long term exposure... there it is). Fibers are known to stay airborne for hours, only to settle out and be reintroduced by just walking through the space. And even if you have properly removed the stuff and packaged it, there is still the problem of getting rid of it. This stuff is considered hazardous waste, so you can't just bag it and put it in the garbage. Think about it. The garbage man throws it in the truck and the unlabelled bag breaks open? It won't take but a split second to figure out that you've knowingly removed it and put it the municipal trash. And to make matters worse, you are now on the hook for a truck load of contaminated trash and a stranger whom you've now exposed. There are plenty of laws governing the transportation and disposal of asbestos. In some cases fines in the 5 digit range and prison time are not unheard of, and this scenario is exactly why.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #35
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Drywall Identification? Asbestos?


Be especially careful if you have asthma!
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:21 PM   #36
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Drywall Identification? Asbestos?


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Be especially careful if you have asthma!
I would be more worried about other stuff affecting people with asthma during their daily lives, then demo of some walls. My wife left the house the days that we did the demo on the bath & Kitchen/Dining wall, so that she would not be around the dust that did get through between the plastic curtain & ceiling/walls.
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Old 06-03-2013, 01:25 PM   #37
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Drywall Identification? Asbestos?


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RWolff, if you notice, the person that hired the other person got in trouble for not paying fair wages, which in turn brought to light the other activities.

As a homeowner, there is really going to be very little material is most modern homes, unless it is one of those with asbestos siding or shingles, or even has a boiler with the old asbestost wrap. Then you need to call in the professionals.

As for getting back on topic, doubtful there is any matter in that gyprock that contains even a microfram of asbestos.

That may be, but the cat was let out of the bag regardless of how it was let out, and this is the headline that we in this thread should be concerned with:

Quote:
for his role at the head of a conspiracy to ignore federal asbestos regulations during a three-year renovation project
I don't know what exactly the regulations consist of, but I am unaware of a minimum quantity exemption, unless you can cite the actual regulation where it states something like

"home owners are exempt from regulation"
"small DIY projects are exempt from regulation"
"quantities of less than ___pounds are exempt from regulation"

Then the possibility of fines and more should be of concern to anyone handling this stuff, it doesn't matter if it's 2 teaspoons or 50,000 tons and I believe the regulations don't make any written distinction between the two.
The fact is too, once a person posts something on a public forum like this, it's archived, no one knows who may be reading forums like this just looking for such violations so they can justify their jobs at the EPA and whatnot.
Yes, it's unlikely the person will be caught, but like speeding with a radar detector on you take your chances an officer doesn't flip his radar on just as you come around that blind corner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maintenance 6
There are no laws preventing a homeowner from removing his own asbestos.

And even if you have properly removed the stuff and packaged it, there is still the problem of getting rid of it. This stuff is considered hazardous waste, so you can't just bag it and put it in the garbage. Think about it. The garbage man throws it in the truck and the unlabelled bag breaks open? It won't take but a split second to figure out that you've knowingly removed it and put it the municipal trash. And to make matters worse, you are now on the hook for a truck load of contaminated trash and a stranger whom you've now exposed. There are plenty of laws governing the transportation and disposal of asbestos. In some cases fines in the 5 digit range and prison time are not unheard of, and this scenario is exactly why.
Perfect comments, thank you for outlining that so well!
That is exactly where the problem is, sure, anyone can remove asbestos, there's no law you can't tear a wall down in your own home, but the DISPOSAL is the big problem, and there's where they can track down the garbage truck load's origins and figure out who dumped the stuff in that load.
When they dump the load you have people looking for scrap metal, recyclables, things thrown out that are not allowed in the landfill like computers, car batteries etc. now you expose these people too.
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Last edited by RWolff; 06-03-2013 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:24 PM   #38
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Drywall Identification? Asbestos?


FYI... This particular plaster board did not contain asbestos... Sorry for not updating the thread sooner. Someone recently asked me a question about the results.

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