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danreg99 01-10-2011 12:11 AM

ceiling seams very noticeable(new construction with pictures)
 
4 Attachment(s)
Just wondering what everyone else thinks about our ceiling in our "new construction" home. I think it looks terrible and is a very poor finishing job. Please let me know if this is normal. Also, I have attached pictures of my garage sheetrock ( 1/3 of factory edges look broken) and the "professional patch" job after pipes froze 5 times ( yeah it's great owning a new house!). Please let me what you all think and if the poor finish could be fixed. Thanks!

mark942 01-10-2011 06:21 AM

Your right,looks very bad. Talk to your builder about fixing both ceiling and garage. I would also be concerned about insulation in the garage exterior walls or ceiling. Normal is not a word I would use to define this situation.

oh'mike 01-10-2011 08:15 AM

Amateur looking finish on the ceiling --I think they were counting on the texture to hide the poor taping--

Will be very difficult to fix with the texture already installed---

Garages should be fire taped ---that is code any where I have worked---Might have stopped the cold air a bit--The damaged edges of the drywall is common enough and will not cause a problem for a skilled taper.

epson 01-10-2011 10:01 AM

In order to fix your taping problem correctly all the texture has to come off and then re-tape or repair the existing problem and then texture the whole ceiling again. That is the only way or else you will notice the repair like a sore thumb. Been there done that…

As for the garage, if you have a bedroom above then the garage has to be gas proofed for carbon monoxide and the drywall fire rated with 5/8’’ drywall and tape.

danreg99 01-10-2011 10:18 AM

I dont think the fire tape is code in ND. I think all they need is 5/8 sheetrock between garage and bedroom.

redmanblackdog 01-10-2011 12:10 PM

There was an article on this website that referred to the difficulty of matching textures after patching (sorry I can't remember where). It is very true, even for a journeyman mudder. So to get the best chance of nothing showing, re mud the seam, and to skim the whole ceiling with mud bringing it back to a fairly smooth surface and then retexturing. But if you want to try to match up then this is the process.

I would sand the seam with a heavy grit (60 or 80). Sanding 14" on each side of the hump. That will scuff the paint so the new mud will adhere to the surface. Take finish mud straight out of the box to use if it is at all workable. Going over a painted surface works best with thicker mud. If it is not workable, thin it down until it is but don't over thin. I typically work with a 8" knife for what is called a double (second coat, treating this as just a tape coat because of the hump). Spread the mud down both sides of the hump, feathering the edges always and smoothing it out, leaving a mud line in the middle. Mud on a painted surface will spread differently than on bare sheetrock, and you will notice that because of the texture, you will have ridges and bumps as you try to feather, I will explain more later). I have found that using mud over paint will normally have more air pockets (like little bubbles). Once the mud has dried, scrape those off with your knife and fill with a tight pass of mud. Wait for a short while and when those are dry then do your sanding. After that run a 12" pass on both sides feathering the edge and smoothing the mud, leaving a line of mud in the middle to sand out after drying. If air pockets are still there, scrape and fill with a tight pass of mud let dry and then sand and touch up. If you try and sand air pockets without scraping and filling first, I have found that the dust from the sanding gets into the pockets and doesn't let the mud adhere and will come back out.

You can tell how bad the seam is by placeing your 12" knife across the hump and seeing how badly it rocks. Then slide it to one side and the other of the seam leaving the one tip of the knife on the hump and look for light between the blade and the surface, that tells you where and how bad it needs mud. You will never make it flat, but you are trying to make it a gradual bowed hump instead of such a obvious hump. 12" knife on each side gives you almost 24" to round off the hump.

Now earlier I said I would address the ridges as you try to feather the edge. These you sand of course. But you use a damp rag to wipe out the mud that leaves a line in the existing texture. If you don't do this it will show after all is said and done.

Once you have the mud the way you like it, and you have sanded and touched up and smoothed the edges with a damp rag, you are ready to texture. It appears that you have what we call a knocked down. Meaning the textured was sprayed on fairly heavy and then laid down with a knife. Making it match perfectly will be hard. Another way, is to texture it as close as you can, let dry and retexture over the whole ceiling again to get it all to blend together.

None are an easy fix

danreg99 01-10-2011 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmanblackdog (Post 567010)
There was an article on this website that referred to the difficulty of matching textures after patching (sorry I can't remember where). It is very true, even for a journeyman mudder. So to get the best chance of nothing showing, re mud the seam, and to skim the whole ceiling with mud bringing it back to a fairly smooth surface and then retexturing. But if you want to try to match up then this is the process.

I would sand the seam with a heavy grit (60 or 80). Sanding 14" on each side of the hump. That will scuff the paint so the new mud will adhere to the surface. Take finish mud straight out of the box to use if it is at all workable. Going over a painted surface works best with thicker mud. If it is not workable, thin it down until it is but don't over thin. I typically work with a 8" knife for what is called a double (second coat, treating this as just a tape coat because of the hump). Spread the mud down both sides of the hump, feathering the edges always and smoothing it out, leaving a mud line in the middle. Mud on a painted surface will spread differently than on bare sheetrock, and you will notice that because of the texture, you will have ridges and bumps as you try to feather, I will explain more later). I have found that using mud over paint will normally have more air pockets (like little bubbles). Once the mud has dried, scrape those off with your knife and fill with a tight pass of mud. Wait for a short while and when those are dry then do your sanding. After that run a 12" pass on both sides feathering the edge and smoothing the mud, leaving a line of mud in the middle to sand out after drying. If air pockets are still there, scrape and fill with a tight pass of mud let dry and then sand and touch up. If you try and sand air pockets without scraping and filling first, I have found that the dust from the sanding gets into the pockets and doesn't let the mud adhere and will come back out.

You can tell how bad the seam is by placeing your 12" knife across the hump and seeing how badly it rocks. Then slide it to one side and the other of the seam leaving the one tip of the knife on the hump and look for light between the blade and the surface, that tells you where and how bad it needs mud. You will never make it flat, but you are trying to make it a gradual bowed hump instead of such a obvious hump. 12" knife on each side gives you almost 24" to round off the hump.

Now earlier I said I would address the ridges as you try to feather the edge. These you sand of course. But you use a damp rag to wipe out the mud that leaves a line in the existing texture. If you don't do this it will show after all is said and done.

Once you have the mud the way you like it, and you have sanded and touched up and smoothed the edges with a damp rag, you are ready to texture. It appears that you have what we call a knocked down. Meaning the textured was sprayed on fairly heavy and then laid down with a knife. Making it match perfectly will be hard. Another way, is to texture it as close as you can, let dry and retexture over the whole ceiling again to get it all to blend together.

None are an easy fix


Thank you for the info. In your opinion is this "normal" or is it a half assed finishing job?

redmanblackdog 01-10-2011 12:37 PM

Its probably half assed finishing. But sad to say craftsmanship isn't what it used to be, so it is becoming more typical.

I was a drywall contractor for over 15 years. I stopped contracting when you could no longer depend on getting good sheetrock. Half my jobs, I would end up reworking the crappy sheets. It become a constant headache to try and find the problems with the rock (paper letting loose from the gypsum, couldn't trust the paper on butt joints, missing gysum).

And what could be part of your problem is, raised shoudlers. That is when the factory has to much pressure indenting the tappered edge along the rock, causing the shoulder of the taper to stick out farther instead of being flushed with the rest of the field in the sheet.

The manufacturers always paid me when I billed them to fix there rock, but what a head ache. You can imagine seams like that all over 1/2 of a million dollar home, that I would have to fix because of bad sheetrock. I got tired of being the Sherlock Holmes of the drywall business.

The manufacturers don't care about there quality. Quality went out of the window in the 70's.

bjbatlanta 01-10-2011 02:01 PM

Normally drywall that is going to receive texture gets only a tape and "bed" coat, no skim. The texture covers the lack of finish. When was the drywall finished?? Was it cold and damp? You could be seeing "delayed shrinkage". The mud dries from the outside in. What appears to be dry is still wet underneath when the subsequent coat is applied (mud can take days and even weeks to completely dry). Once everything finally dried completely, the mud on the joints was not even enough for texture. And this is just a "shot in the dark". I've seen it before on "winter time" houses. Finishers use "torpedo heaters to work in the cold/damp weather and those type of heaters only add more moisture to the air, so thorough drying doesn't happen. As for the last picture, it looks like the guys who stocked the house dropped the bundles rather than slid them down the wall as they loaded them....

danreg99 01-10-2011 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjbatlanta (Post 567095)
Normally drywall that is going to receive texture gets only a tape and "bed" coat, no skim. The texture covers the lack of finish. When was the drywall finished?? Was it cold and damp? You could be seeing "delayed shrinkage". The mud dries from the outside in. What appears to be dry is still wet underneath when the subsequent coat is applied (mud can take days and even weeks to completely dry). Once everything finally dried completely, the mud on the joints was not even enough for texture. And this is just a "shot in the dark". I've seen it before on "winter time" houses. Finishers use "torpedo heaters to work in the cold/damp weather and those type of heaters only add more moisture to the air, so thorough drying doesn't happen. As for the last picture, it looks like the guys who stocked the house dropped the bundles rather than slid them down the wall as they loaded them....

It was taped/mudded in October and they used the furnace for drying. Hopefully something can be done about it. I don't want to look at this ceiling for the next 10 years!

bjbatlanta 01-10-2011 04:58 PM

If the furnace was on, the drying process shouldn't be a factor unless they did something stupid like taping and running the bed coat at the same time (not allowing the tape to dry first). It's kind of hard to tell, but the texture doesn't look very heavy either, which would be a factor in how well it covers. In looking back at the first picture, I also noticed a couple of spots where there are "blisters/bubbles". That's what happens when you mud over wet tape (especially overhead). The joints kind of appear to be doing the same thing, looking closer at your pic. Hard to tell for sure. At any rate, it is unacceptable workmanship in my opinion. You're talking a major project to repair. It's hard to just tear out and re-finish the offending areas and re-texture to match/blend with the existing. Not saying it can't be done, but..... With the ceiling having been painted, it's even harder to work with. If your builder is reputable, he should stand behind getting his drywall contractor to make the necessary repairs to your satisfaction. And if the drywall contractor is reputable, he will make the necessary repairs no matter what it takes. I have my doubts about both of them though, or you wouldn't be looking at this poor quality of work to begin with.

danreg99 01-10-2011 05:07 PM

BjbAtlanta,

I would hope the contractor does something about this. If I were a contractor I sure as hell wouldn't want my name attached to this ceiling. I guess time will tell. Thanks for all of the info.

redmanblackdog 01-10-2011 05:44 PM

The general contractor will blame the taping sub-contractor, who will blame the sheetrock manufacturers, who will in turn blame the general contractor for poor framing. Been there!

I would check your shoulders in the garage to see if they are bad, if they are, you have your case against the Manufacturers(probably from same batch as the house). You would have to dismantle the sheets in the garage to get the batch number off of the back of the board to use for evidence. Its along the back of the tapered edge. It tells the date and the location where the board comes from. Might only be along top or bottom of sheet, I don't think its on both.

You can check the shoulders by laying a 2' level across the seam. There should be no rocking of the level because there is no mud on yet. All you should see is the level sitting flat on the wall and the light coming through the recessed edge. If there is a hump above or below most of the distance of the sheet, you have bad shoulders.

Other wise, tell the general and the sub that you are going to sue there bond. If they are licensed and bonded, you have alternatives.

One other thing it could be is that they taped a seam in your house that looks like the seam in your garage, without prepping it right by tearing it out and making it solid before taping.

good luck

masterofall 01-10-2011 08:46 PM

I'm glad someone mentioned removing the paper that has come loose from the gypsum. That is some times the result of boarders squeezing the sheets to tight with their foot lifts. Just score the paper and rip it out or the seams will never be solid after taping.
My heart goes out to you but it looks like your removing all the texture and fanning the joints out on either side. I your lucky a firm scrape and pole sand will get you down to the primer.

Dusty1 03-19-2011 01:39 AM

Your last photo shows crushed edges. The paper and crushed gypsum must be removed and filled with setting type compound and re-taped. The finished ceiling photos look like they were done by an amateur! It seems that everyone thinks that the ceiling will be the easiest to finish. It's not. It's the most difficult. Texture spray doesn't hide the poor job underneath.


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