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-   -   Can blue (lightweight) drywall compound be used for all coats? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f101/can-blue-lightweight-drywall-compound-used-all-coats-181302/)

amakarevic 06-04-2013 09:52 PM

Can blue (lightweight) drywall compound be used for all coats?
 
I had a guy come in to do some drywall taping today and I had a bag of 20 min hot mud and a bucket of each green (regular) and blue (lightweight) joint compound. I always though that the green should be used for the first two coats cause it is stronger and blue for the final coat cause it is easier to sand.

Once the dude finished the bag of hot mud, he went straight for the blue to do a little bit of first coating that was left at the end of the day. I asked him why not use the green and he said they were the same. I was not really sure in my assumption stated above and was tired at the end of the day to argue and also I wanted to trust his experience so I just let him do a couple of panels and a joint with the blue.

1. Who is correct, me or him?

2. If I am right and he is wrong, why could have led him to fail at differentiating?

3. If I am wrong and if they are indeed the same, why would they even have two different products (by the same brand)?

Willie T 06-04-2013 10:07 PM

Green does have more adhesive properties for bedding tape. And, frankly it's all I use anywhere, except for maybe some Durabond in holes.

jeffnc 06-04-2013 11:12 PM

Obviously they are not the same.

Actually, even ignoring the setting compounds, there is taping compound and topping compound. Problem is you can't find those anywhere anymore (OK, probably not literally "anywhere".) All purpose compound was found to be strong enough to tape with and workable enough to finish with, so it's more convenient just to use it.

You can tape everything with lightweight compound, although it's not as strong, but does sand easily. The question is, does the strength difference matter? If it really mattered that much, then everyone would have to tape joints with setting compound. I can't give you a situation where lightweight would definitely fail, but all purpose would definitely work.

Nailbags 06-05-2013 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffnc (Post 1195454)
Obviously they are not the same.

Actually, even ignoring the setting compounds, there is taping compound and topping compound. Problem is you can't find those anywhere anymore (OK, probably not literally "anywhere".) All purpose compound was found to be strong enough to tape with and workable enough to finish with, so it's more convenient just to use it.

You can tape everything with lightweight compound, although it's not as strong, but does sand easily. The question is, does the strength difference matter? If it really mattered that much, then everyone would have to tape joints with setting compound. I can't give you a situation where lightweight would definitely fail, but all purpose would definitely work.

This what I use I don't buy the green because USG makes this for the Northwest. I use this for taping love the stuff. http://www.usg.com/beadex-all-purpos...l#tab-features
I then can still use that or use this product That one never uses for taping or setting beads. http://www.usg.com/beadex-topping-jo...ady-mixed.html
I hope that helps.
Also i disagree with JeffNC it clearly states Not to use light weight compound for taping. That is just me kinda follow the book on that one. But just to make life simple use the green lid for everything.

jeffnc 06-05-2013 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailbags (Post 1195473)
This what I use I don't buy the green because USG makes this for the Northwest. I use this for taping love the stuff. http://www.usg.com/beadex-all-purpos...l#tab-features
I then can still use that or use this product That one never uses for taping or setting beads. http://www.usg.com/beadex-topping-jo...ady-mixed.html

Also i disagree with JeffNC it clearly states Not to use light weight compound for taping.

Your grammar needs a little work, because your first two (or three?) sentences don't really make any sense.

Also, what exactly "clearly states not to use lightweight compound for taping"? This one is the most readily available around here.

http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-plus-3-...-compound.html

ToolSeeker 06-05-2013 08:22 AM

I used to work for a guy that only used the lightweight, long story short we got a lot of call backs for cracking. Notice I said a lot of call backs, not all. So sometimes it will be OK. If saying they are all the same you could use topping for every coat because it's so easy to sand. Try it, it is easy to sand because it has no glue in it, and can only be used for top coat. Any thing else and I guarantee it will crack. Since topping is not available where I am, unless there is a large place that needs fill (for whice I use Durabond,) then I tape with the all purpose and finish with the light weight or ultra light weight. If you have a small job and don't want to buy 2 or 3 different types of mud there is a company called Trim-Tex they make a product called Mud Max whice is a glue. You simply add 8oz. to a 5 gal. bucket instead of water and mix it. You can also mix it in small batches. This will make the mud almost like durabond when it dries. You can also use concrete additive or just white Elmer's glue. This way 1 bucket of bright blue lid will do it all.

Nailbags 06-05-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffnc (Post 1195523)
Your grammar needs a little work, because your first two (or three?) sentences don't really make any sense.

Also, what exactly "clearly states not to use lightweight compound for taping"? This one is the most readily available around here.

http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-plus-3-...-compound.html

Always a grammar nazi lurking around. I would never use light topping for tapping. plus what blue lid are you talking about they make two products in blue one a dark blue and one a light blue both do not have the glue in it.

ToolSeeker 06-05-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailbags (Post 1195679)
Always a grammar nazi lurking around. I would never use light topping for tapping. plus what blue lid are you talking about they make two products in blue one a dark blue and one a light blue both do not have the glue in it.

Correct and we need to be careful of that as there are also 2 green lids. The bright blue lid is #3 light weight, the light blue lid is topping, it can only be used as final coat. It has no strength.
The bright green lid is all purpose and is for pretty much what the name implies. The light green or off green colored lid is ultra light weight. I like it for skim coating and finish coats since we can't get topping.
Hope this clarifies it a little better.

jeffnc 06-05-2013 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailbags (Post 1195679)
Always a grammar nazi lurking around.

I'm not a grammar nazi. Your grammar and attention to detail are so bad that I literally can't tell what you're talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailbags (Post 1195679)
I would never use light topping for tapping. plus what blue lid are you talking about they make two products in blue one a dark blue and one a light blue both do not have the glue in it.

It is not topping compound - it's all purpose compound. It says so right on the label. The the product I'm talking about is very explicit in that link. Simply click on it and read.

jeffnc 06-05-2013 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker (Post 1195568)
I used to work for a guy that only used the lightweight, long story short we got a lot of call backs for cracking. Notice I said a lot of call backs, not all. So sometimes it will be OK. If saying they are all the same you could use topping for every coat because it's so easy to sand. Try it, it is easy to sand because it has no glue in it, and can only be used for top coat. Any thing else and I guarantee it will crack.

Which is it - sometimes it will be OK, or you guarantee it will crack?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker (Post 1195568)
Since topping is not available where I am, unless there is a large place that needs fill (for whice I use Durabond,) then I tape with the all purpose and finish with the light weight or ultra light weight.

You are confusing people (or you are confused). The lightweight compound I linked to is all purpose. Topping compound is a different product.
http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-topping...-compound.html

If you think their lightweight all purpose is not as strong as their regular all purpose, that is one thing. Saying their lightweight is topping compound is confusing at best.

ToolSeeker 06-06-2013 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffnc (Post 1195852)
Which is it - sometimes it will be OK, or you guarantee it will crack?



You are confusing people (or you are confused). The lightweight compound I linked to is all purpose. Topping compound is a different product.
http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-topping...-compound.html

If you think their lightweight all purpose is not as strong as their regular all purpose, that is one thing. Saying their lightweight is topping compound is confusing at best.

I will try to be more precise.

ToolSeeker 06-06-2013 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToolSeeker (Post 1195697)
Correct and we need to be careful of that as there are also 2 green lids. The bright blue lid is #3 light weight, the light blue lid is topping, it can only be used as final coat. It has no strength.
The bright green lid is all purpose and is for pretty much what the name implies. The light green or off green colored lid is ultra light weight. I like it for skim coating and finish coats since we can't get topping.
Hope this clarifies it a little better.

The following statements are based may on my years of experience and may be in complete agreement with other web sites.

Usg #3 lightweight all purpose joint compound comes in a bucket with a bright blue lid-From the experience I referred to in post #6 I feel to use this compound, USG #3 lightweight all purpose in the bucket with the bright blue lid, for every coat you MAY, POSSIBLY, COULD BE, prone to cracks in your joints at some future time. This is only a possibility not a sure thing.

Usg Topping-comes in a bucket with a light blue colored lid and it says topping on the bucket. As the name implies this compound, Usg Topping in the bucket with the light blue colored lid that says Topping on the side of the bucket, this compound should only be used for your final coat. Topping in the bucket with the light blue lid that says Topping on the side of the bucket is great for the final coat because it will fill in small imperfections and it is very easy to sand. Topping in the bucket with the light blue colored lid that says Topping on the side of the bucket has very little adhesive in it, that is why it is so easy to sand. It is this compound, Topping in the bucket with the light blue lid that says topping on the bucket, that I was referring to when I said I would guarantee it to crack if used for coats other than the final one.

Usg All purpose joint compound-comes in a bucket with a bright green lid and says All Purpose on the side of the bucket. It is my experience that this compound, Usg all purpose in the bucket with the bright green lid and All purpose on the side of the bucket, contains more adhesive and is a lot less prone to cracking. The way I personally do this is I bed my tape and for the first and maybe second coat I use Usg all purpose in the bucket with the bright green lid and all purpose on the side of the bucket. Then I switch to Usg #3 light weight all purpose in the bucket with the bright blue lid with #3 light weight all purpose on the side of the bucket.

Usg Ultra light weight comes in a bucket with a light green colored lid- I have not used this compound to tape. Since I found that Usg #3 light weight all purpose in the bucket with the bright blue lid and #3 light weight all purpose on the side of the bucket was prone to cracking I assumed the Usg Ultra light weight in the bucket with the light green lid and ultra light weight on the side of the bucket would be more so prone to cracking. But I have found this compound, Usg ultra light weight in the bucket with bucket with the light green lid and ultra light weight on the side of the bucket, to be very good at final coat since, Topping in the bucket with the light blue lid and Topping on the side of the bucket, is not available in my area. I have also found this product,Usg ultra light weight in the bucket with the light green lid and ultra light weight on the side of the bucket, works very well for doing a skim coat.

I apologize for the apparent confusion my previous post caused and I hope the clarifies which compound I was referring to.

funfool 06-06-2013 10:41 AM

How much drywall are we talking about? How much work was done with the bag of 20 min?

Personally I find 20 min hard to work with, I prefer 45.
Working by myself, I can only mix 1/2 a bag and use it all before it sets up. A full bag = aprox 3/4 of a bucket of mud, and will go a long ways on a small job.
I will use the hot mud to do the whole first coat and embed the tape.
It is possible to do 1 coat hot and 1 coat topping and be ready for texture if you take your time on a small job like 2 walls, blue would work fine for second coat.
A whole room, I would just plan on 3 coats and not take the extra time to smooth it in 2.

You are correct in your order of hot, green, blue.
Assuming all the packing was done with the hot mud, blue or green will be fine.

Either he does not know the proper order, or he is picking the blue because it is easier to work with and get a smooth finish.
If you are going to finish the blue bucket, need to open the green, I would save blue for last.


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